MARS VP Opening

[Marko9]

Originally posted by kdblove_99
I don't get why that is a conflict? Unless you are trying to make it one?

I am not trying to make it a conflict as I really don't care. I know that this is not a thought I just wanted to ponder on an open forum. I brought it up because I have heard this before about the "feel" of things.

[kdblove_99]

ok, I guess i will be pretty frank here.

If other people have Questions about where the club is headed or that others have wholesale licenses shouldn't they be the ones bringing it up? Or i assume you heard a lot of this going on while you were at the meeting or is it hear say?

I know of the few people that have the licenses and other endevours i have never once heard them promote or even talk about it at meetings, etc.

As Bruce stated he has 2 businesses but this was never a concern then, why not? Sounds like there are a few "people" that might have issues with the up coming staff?

My only issue with the club i have ever had is i think a lot of people come for the raffles only. Which i do not think is a sign of a good healthy club. This is only my personal opinion but if the raffles stopped i think the meetings would be a whole lot smaller. If you are not this person or persons please don't take offense

[KMP]

for those that are in the "buisness", i have never seen or heard them trying to promote their buisness. i'm thankful to have close access to those who know; both buisness owners and hard core hobbyists.

[pbetito]

I can tone down the raffles if that is what the group wants. I have always said that if the meetings are not fun, attendance will be down. There were recent concerns on Q & A and the way that was being handled and I am certain it didn't help bring people back either. As far as wholesale accounts and who has them Mark, have you felt a buisness is using MARS to self promote? I guess I do not understand your reasoning for asking. You gave your raffle tickets away at the Xmas party but we actually finished the meeting and the raffle early. When the club was doing small raffles, Q&A and speakers in the summer, we had like 30-40 people at a meeting. I may not be an expert on whats best for the club, but that wasn't it. I mean this with ALL DUE RESPECT,
but I see very few people commenting who were showing up for those meetings either. I love constructive criticism but IMO bigger meetings with more reefers spreading knowledge is a good thing If the raffle gets them there, I consider it an honor that I can aid the attendance of the meetings and the activity of the club.

[kdblove_99]

Paul,

I think you do a great jobs with the raffles. I would just like to see people there that are actually interested in reef keeping and not what they can win. the raffle is always a nice bonus.

My main thing for posting here is i didn't understand the reason it was brought up either or what the motive was?

[Marko9]

First of all- just because it is not said at a meeting, does not mean it does not go on, In fact, wasn't it recent when we asked where the vets were.

Second- I have no problems with any of the upcoming staff as I do not personally know any of them; so how could I have a problem with them. The question is; why we have to defend status quo with so much haste. Isn't discussion the greatest avenue for growth?

Third- I agree Paul, you can't have a meeting without people in the seats.

I just don't understand why a the original question has led to this. I asked if this was a club for hobbyist. Sorry to those that this might offended, that was not the point.

[CaptiveReefSystems]

funny Paul, I never heard there was a problem with the Q&A until you brought it up. I am not sure you even know what the word respect means. If you had a problem with the way I handled the Q&A, why weren't you adult enough to call me or e-mail me to voice your concerns. No, you choose to flame me here on the public forum. That is one of the reasons for me stepping down as VP. I did not want to be part of an organization where the board members tear down other board members.

I am done with MARS and for some I am sure that is a good thing. If you have anything you want to take issue with where it concerns me, do it to my face or at least my ear, not here. I can only imagine what outsiders think of us with all this negative back and forth.

I hope you are right about your method to build MARS into a super club. Maybe someday I will have to eat my words and apologize to you. I just did not want to be part of a club where the education took a back seat to a raffle. Thats just me I guess.

[pbetito]

I guess with change there are always going to be some who like it and some who don't. IMO the club is on a major upswing. There is a great blend of new blood and the best of the old gaurd combining on the board to see lots of growth. The club is getting active and the membership is growing. Whether it is Mike Bedford or anyone else who becomes VP I am sure they will infuse a new positive winning attitude to the position and we look forward to helping them. For the record I am opposed to anyone using their board position to further their personal buisness. I would also like to add that I never saw Bruce or any other member do anything resembling this. The board seems to really care about the good of the club and while we may not always agree with one another, we all respect eachother and share the same common goals.

[KMP]

i realize i'm the tiny voice in the background here; however, as a new member (first meeting in april i believe) i used to watch the calendar anxious for the next meeting. each month, a week prior to the meeting i would post up asking what the topic was. that's why i'm with this club. i value the experience and enjoy learning new things. the raffle was nothing in comparison to what it is now and if it were to go away or reduce in size, i'd still be anxious for the next meeting and new topics.

bruce, i appreciate everything you did and wish you were sticking around. i was always listening intently and valued your opinions (and other experienced veterans that shared). just thought i would pass that along as i'm sure you don't even know who i am; but more significant that you know there are many that appreciate your contribution and patience with us newbies!

[Reefugee]

[deleted]

[Reefugee]

Edit: I will add back one comment from my deleted post:


Last - I really do want to thank Bruce for all his contributions to this hobby and club. He has provided me with valuable information when I was a newbie. I don't always agree with his advice - but I respect the fact that he's willing to help a total newbie out. He's an outstanding contributing member, and I am sorry to see that he is "done with MARS." His leaving is a loss to MARS.

[KMP]

dangit guys, i just quoted the heck out of mihn

mihn, i'm still the new kid on the block but i agree with what you posted.

[Marko9]

That was some good stuff. Thanks for sharing Minh.

[kdblove_99]

Missed it, thats a shame i wish you would have kept it up.

I know some of your views on some issues.

There are some things i really cant understand. Why would you just quit? Did you ever bring it up to anyone in person and tell them you did not appreciate them saying stuff on here and you were hurt by it espacially being a fellow board member?

Or are you doing what you said Paul was so wrong about and airing dirty laundry right now about it? I don't know that is why i am asking?

If you did call Paul or anyone else and let them know about this what was there response and did they continue to air laundry after that?

[petes97]

Bruce,

I'm sorry that you felt you needed to leave. I think that it is a bad sign when an organization, in its haste to expand, looses those people that made it what it is. I'd like to think that we can rectify the issues that made you feel that you no longer want to be a part of MARS. As a new board member, and a general member, I want everyone to feel welcome and comfortable. This should be our constant goal.

I personally think that there needs to be a balanced mix between the composition of various elements in the meeting. The raffle draws a crowd and helps the club with operating expenses, but what I look forward to most are the speakers, the Q&A, the hands-on activities and the people. In my opinion, the position of the VP is probably the most valuable to the club, and surely very time consuming. Having the opportunity to hear from experts in the hobby is what I look forward to the most. This is the one thing that MARS can offer me that I cannot get anywhere else.

Bruce, I hope that you will reconsider your resignation from your position, but even if that bridge has been crossed, I truly hope that you will reconsider your resignation from the club.

[kdblove_99]

I posted in the other thread that is one job i would not want and seems to be very time consuming.

Seems like he did a great job and you hate to see people leave cause they felt disrespected

If it was burn out i think everyone would be ok with it. I could see how VP could burn you out.

But if its the Q&A issue with Paul. Why make the rest of the club suffer cause you have an issue with a particular member? You quit over 1 guys comments on this board?

Why not stick it out and try and make the club based more on speakers and Knowledge than raffles?

I like the raffles but if they went away oh well. I have said from the beginning if the club is based on raffles it will not last or if it does will not be strong.

I'm so much more looking forward to Sanjay in February than any raffle. I would rather Sanjay speak longer ands skip the raffle if you want my honest opinion.


I'm not on anyones side here and i don't want you to think that. To be honest i would rather you and Paul talk this thing out and you return as VP. I would defiently vote for you, Bruce

[kevin95695]

Bruce: Nice job. But stepping down twice in one year? Personality conflicts that bad?

Bye.

[JJ4417]

So...if we could put a halt to the MARS high school drama...Back to the original point that Mark brought up.

I would like to hear this...

1) Who are the board members?
2) Their experience in the hobby
3) Any income from the biz
4) What each persons goal for the club is without citing utterly useless mission statements that are used only for paperwork. As a board member, what is your personal goal for the club? (Not fluffy crap...but serious attainable goals.)

I think that this would actually be of some intererst to the club members and those that are thinking of joining, as well as an appropriate discussion for RC instead of the members forum.

[Brian Prestwood]

I think your question about the ethics of running an aquarium trade business and being a MARS/MARS Board member are valid. It would be better if this weren't a stealth topic hiding under the VP opening announcement. Unfortunately, there's too much here to move it. I do hope RC doesn't mind us discussing it here.

I think working in the aquarium trade introduces a bias that, in some cases, forces a person to choose between the best interests of the club and the best interests of their business.

I think member bias isn't any of the club's official business. I do hope that members that have the bias have the decency to disclose it when expessing biased opinions. However, I don't think the club should establish policies to hinder members from running a business. On the flip side, I think the club should never put the interests of any business ahead of its own.

Board members are a different story. I believe all members who work in the aquarium trade should disclose that if they run for office. I also believe some sectors of the aquarium trade are intrinsically competitive with club activities. Members in those sectors should not be allowed to run for office. In other words, if most of your income comes from selling what we're giving away you should not be on the board. I'd like to see both of my beliefs enacted as bylaws. Fortunately for everyone, MARS is a democracy. If a majority of the membership doesn't agree with me then it won't happen.

Again, per the bylaws, changes to bylaws must go to a vote of the membership, not just the board. The board can put it before the membership or five members can ask the President to do it.

[kevin95695]

As a newly elected board member, I am an enthusiast. My "day job" is completely unrelated to the club and irrelevant in this context. I have been an aquarist for nearly 20 years, with about a year as a reefer at this point. I have not defined any goals as a board member. Accepted the nomination as I felt compelled to "give back" beyond making comments on a forum.

[JJ4417]

I'll just throw down a new thread and this one can go where it wants.

[Brian Prestwood]

After ten years as a MARS member, I think I can say with some certainty that the raffle table is a determining factor in the membership size. I also think it is true that if the membership drops below approx 40 it isn't self sustaining through word of mouth and that it will continue to drop without extensive intervention. It also doesn't generate enough income to pay for speakers when it is below 40.

That is an unfortunately reality. However, it is better to accept an unfortunately reality and deal with it than to ignore it.

Bruce, like you, I think it would be better if we were raffling off more dry goods and less livestock. I am hopeful that the vendor donation letters the club is sending out will provide enough dry goods to offset some of the live stock.

Bruce and Paul, unlike you I think club sponsored group buys of dry goods are a good idea. They put dry goods on the raffle table. I understand their arguement that group buys harm the LFS. I think we've come up with some ways to mitigate that damage.

[MrMikeB]

Well if this is the place to reach more people then here it is.

It is not secret that I run multiple ventures, some of which in the aquarium sector. I do not feel these ventures make me less of an reef enthusiast, and I surely do not see myself as fitting the profile as "big bad business." To that end, and in the spirit of perhaps actually addressing Mark's question, I fully disclose:

1) I am CEO of California Center for Reef Conservation - an upstart R+D public benefit company dedicated to the research of captive propagation techniques of marine animals. It is a corporation with valid CA business licenses, resellers permit, and is in the process of being solidified as a NPO.

If the club feels that my work at CalCRC (which I donate my time and considerable amount of $$$) conflicts me from helping out as a Board member, then please share. I hope that you can see the strengths in what MARS and CalCRC have in common, but if the club feels this is a conflict of interest, I would step down my position on the club rather than tarnish the integrity of the Board.

On a side note, and perhaps Bruce already covered this: If there is indeed questions, concerns, feedback, etc. please feel free to share. I have a very open door policy on most things and do not bite too hard. After a couple beers, you wont get me to shut up. In all seriousness, all I ask is that you show me and your fellow reefer (hell for that matter, your fellow man) the same respect as you would wish them to show you. I know it goes without saying, and perhaps that is the problem.

[petes97]

I am an aquarist of over 20 years, on and off in saltwater and freshwater. I returned to the hobby this time about a year ago and have 4 tanks at the present.

I am employed in the professional services/IT industry.

I will sell/trade equipment and coral from my personal inventory on occasion to support my habit, but have never "made" money on it. I do not buy anything related to the hobby with the specific intention to sell for a profit.

I would love to open a LFS one day, after I've made enough money to retire and loose a ton on the store.

[Brian Prestwood]

Mike

Unlike for profit businesses, your NPO research doesn't appear competitive with MARS' work, in fact just the opposite. MARS and CalCRC appear to have similar goals.

My only concern about your work is that, correct me if I'm wrong, you are selling frags of your research coral to pay for your research.

I don't think that bias is unmanageable. Just disclose that your NPO is dependant on sales from frags whenever expressing opinions against MARS activities that would affect your sales. You should probably also abstain from any votes against them too.

As with MARS, I am certain the LFSs will recognize CalCRC as competition and, with you on the board, MARS as guilty by association. I think I've made my priorities clear. Of course, anything you can do to mitigate the damage your activties do to the LFSs would be appreciated. As with MARS, CalCRC comes first for CalCRC.

I am looking forward to seeing your research. Can MARS get first drafts?