Ati bubblemaster look alike hitting the market

[Klaus Jansen]

@Jon..
yes, it is possible. Bubble King Copys for 1/2 cost or 1/4 cost, when it come from China. DIY-Red Dragon Pumps, Copys from the Red Dragons... good for you, bad for Inventors in Europe...
You want a Red Dragon Copy, where come from USA ? Okay, Royal-Exclusive using expensive US-CNC-Machines (Hurco) So we want make the next Invest not in US-Technologie... we want buy a Hurco copy where come from China. = 1/2 Cost...

[lawboy888]

i have two 300 reef...what do you guys recommend as a best skimmer for these...a little ot but maybe i can get some ideas

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by Klaus Jansen
@Jon..
yes, it is possible. Bubble King Copys for 1/2 cost or 1/4 cost, when it come from China. DIY-Red Dragon Pumps, Copys from the Red Dragons... good for you, bad for Inventors in Europe...
You want a Red Dragon Copy, where come from USA ? Okay, Royal-Exclusive using expensive US-CNC-Machines (Hurco) So we want make the next Invest not in US-Technologie... we want buy a Hurco copy where come from China. = 1/2 Cost...

Its not as if I blame you or any other mfg's in particular... I blame the falling $US. I just dont see an end in sight... I wouldnt be shocked if the $1 US = .50 Euro within a year or two... like the UK Pound.

And I dont mean 'poor copies' of BK skimmers exactly. I mean... look at what mfg's exist in the US... not alot. Mostly beckett 'black box' mfg's. The best we have might be the Euro-reef, and even they are considering going with Hailea pumps. Then there is the Dart Needlewheel... not exactly efficient or a 'gem' to some. Sure, there is Volcano, and ORCA... but these are small operations at the moment.

Almost all the 'better' skimmers on the market, needlewheel at least, come from the EU...
Tunze
BK
Deltec
H&S
ATI
Hydor (not that they export to US though)
ATB
Knop
Schuran
ELOS
Grotech
RATZ
ZC
Aquaconnect
Aqua Medic

It seems we like AquaC Remoras, ASM's and Coralifes in the US though...lol. The problem for US makers is pumps it seems... its hard to find a good pump that isnt a Red Dragon, Eheim, etc. GEO even quit making skimmers. Oh, wait... yeah, RK has started a consumer grade line. Ooooooo.

Buying crap from China isnt always the best idea either... sometimes its just not well engineered. These SWC models look better than the usual, but because they use Sicce pumps. The chinese dont seem to have a grasp on 'pond pumps = best skimmer pumps' yet.

[Roland Jacques]

Originally posted by GSMguy
i talked to Jeremy at PA about the tube and i see no reason not to dremel it right off.

Originally posted by sjm817
The extended bubble plate is there for a reason. The ATIs flow a lot of H20 and move a lot of air and has a short body. The extended tube is to prevent microbubbles from exiting the skimmer. You could cut that tube down if you have an effective way to deal with skimmer microbubbles. That said, it doesn't seem to hurt performance. The skimmers work very well.

I think the extended tube over the BP has two other small fuctions which might help performance just a little.

1. flow path. It insure all through put water dose not take a "short cut" to the skimmer exit . Not a big deal ether way, but id rather have it than not, as long as it dose not create any extra turbulence in the neck.

(I was disappointed to find out that some Orca big Dart recirc skimmers have a good % of the throughput water going directly to the output without being skimmed or even seeing a bublbe at all. That's due to a bad path design .)

2. More concentration of Air/bubbles : water (interface) for a Just a little longer time. Once the mixture leaves the extended tube the water ratio goes up as the bubble continue up. Again not a big deal but...

[GuySmilie]

Originally posted by hahnmeister

.......So, thats why we need a US made skimmer pump that is quality.......It is possible.......

.......And pretty soon, the pump will no longer be an obstacle even... Im making sure of that.

Which all begs the question,
is der hahnmeister entertaining ideas of fabricating/marketing such an animal, in the USA?

[GSMguy]

Originally posted by Roland Jacques

(I was disappointed to find out that some Orca big Dart recirc skimmers have a good % of the throughput water going directly to the output without being skimmed or even seeing a bublbe at all. That's due to a bad path design .)

the ORCA Dart from Reeflo and the Dart needlewheel skimmer from ORCA are different designs i think you may have the two confused...

[Rwinfrey]

I spoke with euroreef today they do not plan on changing pumps.

In my opinion ATB ATB ATB just kidding

[JCTewks]

Originally posted by Rwinfrey
I spoke with euroreef today they do not plan on changing pumps.

In my opinion ATB ATB ATB just kidding

What??? I'm confused, what does this have to do with this thread???

[flyyyguy]

oops

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by Rwinfrey
I spoke with euroreef today they do not plan on changing pumps.

In my opinion ATB ATB ATB just kidding

Yeah, it wasnt a 'for sure' but they were looking into the Hailea I know. Perhaps the response when they posted that told them enough... or, perhaps the falling dollar is preventing even the Chinese pumps from being as attractive either.

[Roland Jacques]

Originally posted by GSMguy
the ORCA Dart from Reeflo and the Dart needlewheel skimmer from ORCA are different designs i think you may have the two confused...

Just comparing 2 skimmers builders, and the thought that went into designing flow paths. The ORCA is just a great Example of a high end skimmer with a poor design of flow path. Maybe up to 20% of the through/put water sees no bubbles at all. this = poor flow path design. But your right it was a little off topic thats why the ( )s

The ATI BM with the extended Bubble plate Tube, maximizes throughput time because the water/air mixture has to go a longer distances before can leave the skimmer. = Great flow path. Without the extension tube the waters entering the skimmer CAN quickly escape the reaction camber.

Less Micro bubble is sump, more bubble/water contact, longer flow path. Thats make 3 reasons to keep the tube extension. Just trying to understand why anyone would want to remove it. (unless it causes extra turbulence in the neck)

[GSMguy]

Roland you have yet to read my post? you quoted it??? what orca are you talking about?

[GSMguy]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Yeah, it wasnt a 'for sure' but they were looking into the Hailea I know. Perhaps the response when they posted that told them enough... or, perhaps the falling dollar is preventing even the Chinese pumps from being as attractive either.

If you build it they will come....

[steve the plumb]

Thats my skimmer you are talking about.So far the skimmer works great.What I don't know is how efficient it is but it does produce a hell of a lot more skim mate than my tunze skimmer did.

[steve the plumb]

I find the skim mate is darker and smells worse than my tunze.My tunze gave me a light watery skim mate.It was never like this.I find the skimmer is working even better

[steve the plumb]

You guys should give the skimmer a try before knocking it.I am very happy with it

[GSMguy]

im not knocking it, looks great, I would imagine it kicks butt

[Roland Jacques]

Originally posted by GSMguy
Roland you have yet to read my post? you quoted it??? what orca are you talking about?

Sorry, I totaly misunderstood your post. ( Thanks for seting me straight. ill get the exact name.

[steve the plumb]

the wet neck does work at keeping the top half of the skimmer cup clean.I just pulled out crud from it yesterday.This was my tunze you can barley see at the bottom I have some light colored skimmate that was very watery and took forever to produce.That skimmer cost me $808 CDN funds.I didn't pay that much more for my dart skimmer compared to what I got its a joke.

[Roland Jacques]

dart NW made by ORCA www.protein-skimmer.com

Steve, im not knocking it over all. And besides I knock every skimmer. Theirs no perfect skimmer otherwise there would be no room for improvements.

It just very has a poor flow path. Lets Face it skimmers don't have to be perfect in every way to do a great job. It is still a great value. IMO the flow path just could have been Easily fixed.

[steve the plumb]

Do you think I could fix the skimmer now?Maybe adjust the flow path but I don't see how I could get in there to do that.I am wondering if it would make a big difference in performance.For one all my water going into the sump goes into a filter sock.All my water leaving the sump now some goes into the tank and some goes into the skimmer.I also placed a filter sock at the exit of my skimmer to see if it turns brown or not.It does turn a slight brown but nothing like the filter sock in my overflow return.I was curious to see if dirty water does escape the skimmer.I switched out the 2 socks yesterday and I will take a pic for comparison.

[steve the plumb]

Shaun built another model and made some changes but he tested and found no difference in skimmer performance http://www.protein-skimmer.com/image...mmer%20002.JPG

[hahnmeister]

I doubt many would see a change in performance unless running it on a 500g+ system. Still, the inlet thing is something that would bug me as well... esp for detritus removal... having the inlet on the pump means everything gets at least one pass through the pump, so detritus and solid waste will get pulled out. With the inlet on the bottom chamber, this chamber will most likely become a detritus settling zone, accumulating mulm.

As for how to 'fix' the skimmer you have steve, you can simply run an extension on the inlet pipe so that it terminates right before the pump intake of the dart. BeanAnimal has done this on his DIY 7' tall skimmer. The only trick is... I dont know if you can get into that bottom chamber, or if its been bonded shut.

[ostrow]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
having the inlet on the pump means everything gets at least one pass through the pump,

Are you saying if my pump is a Maxijet 1200, and I have my entire drain running through it at 2000+gph, all of the water will go through the pump?

You are too smart to say that.

Each Sicce, for example, moves around 500gph. Set up recirc, some of that water will enter from the intake pipe in the skimmer chamber. What %? How can we know. I can't conceive of how to determine what percentage of the water exiting the pump comes from which source. But my point is a pump can only move what a pump can move, anything extra from the T on the intake will just exit without getting whipped by the needles, mesh, etc. It will enter, and some will leave, the skimmer.

I think this "flow path" is largely a red herring. Water enters skimmer, the pumps are going to take in the max they can take in. Rest will exit. Path of exit is below the output, below the diffuser chamber, so all shoudl be well. Current down there should push out detritus. Purge valve enables more rigorous cleaning when needed (but the bigger issue here is a removable diffuser chamber, that option is $$$ and I'm bargaining won't be that big of an issue.)

[hahnmeister]

Well, it is assumed that with a recirculating skimmer, the throughput of the skimmer will be much lower than that of the pump... so yes, 100% of the incoming water CAN be put through the pump at least once. A recirc skimmer with a Sicce (400gph throughput) might only have a throughput of 300gph.

I dont think 'flow path' is so trivial when you consider the bottom of the skimmer could become a large settling chamber.