help with shark ID

David M · #1 09/21/2006, 01:19 AM

One of the wholesalers in LA has some very tiny baby sharks, there are so many I have to assume they are captive bred ( but maybe not). Anyway they are calling them "zebra" sharks but according to Scott Michaels book true Zebra sharks ( Stegostoma varium ) hatch out at 9.8 inches, these are barely 5" at best. They are certainly not any type of bamboo or catshark. The have mottled coloration similar to a marbled catshark but with more white spots. They are very active. Anyone have any clue what they might be? I would love to grow some out for the experience but have concerns about the eventual size and likelyhood of finding a suitable home. OTOH a few years with me is a better life than a few months in the hands of some reefer who thinks one will look nice in his 55

Fishfreak218 · #2 09/21/2006, 06:30 AM

we need pics to give u a correct ID... also what size tank do you have?

FMarini · #3 09/21/2006, 07:14 AM

David-
I too have no answer, however I was at an LFS yesterday and they had a few for sale as well. Exactly as you described... and cute. My g/f was trying to convince me to bring a few home.

David M · #4 09/21/2006, 10:10 AM

I saw them there about 3 weeks ago too, lots of them. I don't know if the ones I saw yesterday are the same ones or a new crop. I'm just sooo curious to know if they are even a tropical species. I'm going to call up there today and see if I can get any more detailed info on where they came from. They have them in their invert raceways so we can assume there are no meds of any type in there. If it's still the same group I saw before that is a good sign.

Right now they should be quite comfortable in a 20 long. I could progress them through a series of larger tanks up to a 240 but after that I'm probably done unless I am soo in love with them I'm willing to go larger. I have toyed with building an 8 X 4 pond style tank for bamboo & catsharks. Depending on the growth rate that should give them a few years I'd think, probably a better scenario than most of them are facing now. No, it's not right. No, I can't keep them through adulthood. Yes, if I buy them I encourage the collectors/ breeders/ sellers. It's a question of impact and compassion. Buying 3 of them will not have major impact on the "market". The three I buy will probably have better lives than the 50-60 I leave behind. I can make piece with that, no lectures please. The real issue for me is whether they are wc or cb. If cb there really is no impact whatsoever.

David M · #5 09/21/2006, 11:15 AM

Hmmm., just went through Scott Michaels book cover to cover, the only pic in there that even resembles these sharks is in fact the juvenile Zebra shark shown on page 58. The color/ pattern is pretty much identicle but the tail is not developed like that. Could Scott be wrong about the size at hatch? It would make sense as this species is common in public aquaria and is on Scott's "known to breed in captivity" list. Too bad, if they are zebra's they are doomed. No one can provide for them and there is already a glut of them in large public aquariums.

sixball · #6 09/21/2006, 01:46 PM

I have seen these pop up as well over the past year and am sure they are not true zebra sharks, as they are way too small. True zebra sharks are very expensive and, although they have been bred in captivity, are not very prolific. My best guess is possibly a juvenile swell shark or possibly some type of carpet shark. I have been tempted to grow one out and see what it turns into. I would be more comfortable doing that if I knew they were a tropical species.

stykthyn · #7 09/22/2006, 12:13 AM

need pics

sixball · #8 09/22/2006, 10:38 PM

Here is a pic from fish supply. Some of them that I have seen looked even more spotted than striped. They were even smaller than the newborn brownbanded bamboos and whitespotted bamboos that were in the same tank.

David M · #9 09/23/2006, 12:12 PM

From memory that looks like what they have at the wholesalers. Thanks for the link, I will check that shop out next time I go up that way.

FMarini · #10 09/24/2006, 07:14 AM

David- I'm here at MACNA this weekend. I spoke to a person who mentioned that these sharks are comming in from indo. are most likely hasslets bamboo sharks (Chiloscyllium hasseltii) but wasn't firm on the ID

David M · #11 09/24/2006, 11:54 AM

Thanks Frank, if true that is sort a mixed blessing, good for the sharks, not so good for the hobbyist. Good for the sharks because they have a much better chance of surviving in captivity. Not so good for the hobbyist if they are typical of other bamboo sharks and mostly lay about. Also Scott simply says "similar (to whitespotted bamboo sharks) , but is uniform in color as an adult". So much for the pretty patterns

krj-1168 · #12 09/24/2006, 09:46 PM

[hasslets bamboo sharks (Chiloscyllium hasseltii) but wasn't firm on the ID]

Well - right about the bamboo shark - but I believe that it's actually (C. caerulopunctatum) - the Bluespotted Bamboo - which was long thought to be a sub-species of the Whitespotted.

The biggest difference - between the Bluespotted & Whitespotted other than markings and coloration is - the Bluespotted are smaller only getting to be about 28" in length.

David M · #13 09/27/2006, 11:18 PM

I was running a new route hawking my clownfish and found myself 5 minutes from 104th St. I stopped by and they still had about a dozen of them. I talked to the head dude and he said they were calling them "zebras" only because that is how they came in. They came in from Bali and he knows it's wrong, just couldn't ID them. He knows me and knows that I have been looking at them for months. It never occured to me to ask the price, I figured around $50. To my surprise it was $14.99 !!!!!! I set uo two tubs and started pulling them trying to distinguish males & females, I don't even know if it can be done at this age. Most of them had what I would say are clearly developing claspers, only 3-4 had perfectly rounded fins. Maybe they are too young and develope later, what do I know. Anyway I took one "male" and two "females".

It was interesting that he told me he had never seen them before early 2005 but that since then they have been sporadically available and lately they have been comming in every two weeks. In his view it is a "new species".

I have them acclimating overnight in a barrel and will get them set up tomorrow if time allows. Then pics, I promise. They do lay about like Bamboo sharks but I have not yet seen the "walking" or "perch" position. I had great success getting small whitespots to take PE mysis after beating them over head with it, I think they were just mad at first but learned it was food

I thought I might go to bait shop tomorrow and get some earthworms just to see if they will take them. I have plenty of 3/4" baby sw mollies if they are at all interested and baby sw guppies too.

Above all else I am hoping and dreaming that krj is correct

stykthyn · #14 09/28/2006, 12:15 AM

need pics

krj-1168 · #15 09/28/2006, 09:11 AM

Well - I've seen photos of newborn Zebra Shark(actually S. fasciatum) Pups at seapics.com.

True Zebra pups are about 10" at birth - are black with yellow stripes but few spots. But still it has the same body shape as the adults.

http://www.seapics.com/spsearchLynx/cgi.pan$335917x4x59?spsearchLynx

The Bluespotted looks like a bamboo.
Here's another pic of the bluespotted bamboo.

http://www.atlantisaquarium.net/images/Shark.JPG

Hope that helps.

Puffer Queen · #16 09/28/2006, 09:13 AM

From the pic and the ones i have seen - Definitely hasseltii!

David M · #17 09/28/2006, 10:21 AM

That is what I have dead on !! That pic of the blue spotted bamboo is it exactly. Now if they are healthy and I can get them eating...

Thanks krj

David M · #18 09/28/2006, 10:47 AM

OK I did some searching around on the net for C. caerulopunctatum and found enough info to support the ID. For now that's what I'm going with, and yes one site did list the max size to be 28"

It also sounds like they will retain the pattern somewhat like C. plagiosum so that is good news too. Now I'm happy I bought them.

sixball · #19 09/28/2006, 02:21 PM

Congratulations on the pick-up. Keep us informed on how they are doing. Too bad I don't have room for any more sharks.

David M · #20 09/28/2006, 02:25 PM

Rats, one down already. On it's way anyhow, upside down is not good, right?

The other two each tried some blackworms but didn't seem to like them. Ate a couple each and stopped. The earthworms are a bust too. Showing no interest in mysis either. Force feed? I'm sure they are starving and my guess is that is the problem with the one dying.

Aquai · #21 09/28/2006, 02:53 PM

Tried some feeder shrimp? Always works with anything i've owned...

David M · #22 09/28/2006, 04:22 PM

I will get some FW gost shrimp and try, that is all I can get locally. If they don't take 'em I'll treat the seahorse

krj-1168 · #23 09/28/2006, 06:04 PM

Well - If I may - I suggest you use garlic. Helps to stimulate them into feeding .

Also about how old are they?

Sorry to hear losing one.

Lrgclasper · #24 09/28/2006, 06:06 PM

try some stinky squid (especially the heads) and a goldfish on a skewer.

ClamIAm · #25 09/28/2006, 07:23 PM

Small pieces of silverside are also an option, don't use the goldfish unless they will accept nothing else