More flow = better color

JJohn · #1 08/30/2006, 11:46 PM

I know this is obvious to most of you but, for me, it was somewhat of a revelation. I could never come up with a good reason why flow would effect the pigments and symbiotic algae in sps's. I still don't understand but, I now have a data point (anecdotal evidence) that it really matters.

I have a long established reef with adequate lighting and good water quality (nitrates, PO4 unmeasurable and Ca and alk within range). My SPS's had fast growth but just "okay" color. A bit too brown and biege. Four weeks ago, I added a third MJ1200 and two weeks ago changed my controller algorithm to keep more flow at night. I used to reduce it for "calm" nights. This seems to be a mistake.

I am surprised at the results. Much more blue and purple colors in my acros. My birdnest is now pink not just sort of pink-ish. I know this is not scientific proof as I could not control all variables but, a good result for me.

Just thought I would share what I learned,
John

dirtyreefer · #2 08/30/2006, 11:52 PM

Interesting post John, I may have to give that a try as well. I have my Tunzes set on Night Mode (I know people say not to even bother calming your pumps down at night, but I did anyways), so I'll try it without the night mode to see if I can see any noticeable results.

That would be awesome if such a simple fix can yield such results. You'd be a hero!

JJohn · #3 08/31/2006, 12:24 AM

No chance for hero staus here. I'm still a rookie at SPS's. Just lots of time spent with softies and LPS's.

The one thing I have learned in this hobby is that there are no silver bullets. These are such complex systems with so many variables. One tank can seem similar to another but yet respond the opposite when you change the same parameter. With the many water quality parameters (not just the few we usually monitor), lighting (intensity, spectrum, timing), flow, type of nutrients imported, how nutrients are exported, micro fauna, algaes present, coral species in our system, and so many other things; there are many paths to success and even more to failure. That said, for some, getting rid of the old "calm at night" concept might be worth trying...

John

RichConley · #4 08/31/2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dirtyreefer
Interesting post John, I may have to give that a try as well. I have my Tunzes set on Night Mode (I know people say not to even bother calming your pumps down at night, but I did anyways), so I'll try it without the night mode to see if I can see any noticeable results.

That would be awesome if such a simple fix can yield such results. You'd be a hero!

I dont think the Night Mode thing is the issue here. I think its that he had 2 maxijets running intermittenly in a 75. Thats woefully inadaquate flow. Now he has 3, and is running them all the time, so he probably has almost twice the flow as before.

IE I dont think its the running at night. I think its the huge increase in flow.

manderx · #5 08/31/2006, 10:50 AM

exactly. not 'more flow' so much as 'enough flow'.

clkwrk · #6 08/31/2006, 02:16 PM

agreed proper flow brings more food to corals and also helps the coral remove wastes .Thus corals are healthier which shows in color and pE.

JJohn · #7 08/31/2006, 03:39 PM

Agreed the biggest factor is probably the addition of the third power head. I do think that with the original two MJ1200's and a fairly large return pump also generating flow, I probably had enough flow during the day for a 75G that is still pretty open. My corals did seem healthy before and their polyps constantly looked like they were in a wind storm.

A key point that I am wondering about is color/flow correlation. I had excellent growth rates, great PE, and just okay color. I believe that the first two parameters mean healthy corals. I am not so sure that "corals that are healthier" necessarily have "better" color. The PE and growth indicate health very well. More subtle colors may not necessarily mean better health. We all like the saturated colors but one thing I would like some of the experts to comment on is:

Are the more saturated blues, purples, and pinks really a sign of better health? And why?

Note that I have not seen growth rate and PE change with addition of the third power head combined with running them all 24/7. All that is noticeable is the greater saturation of colors and with less beige or brown mixed with the blue and purple.

John

ScotchMaster · #8 08/31/2006, 04:09 PM

Question...My turnover with return pump and powerheads is around 39X an hour....Is this enough or should I try and bump up the flow some more?

clkwrk · #9 08/31/2006, 04:37 PM

IMO 50x or more .

I run my BBsoftie tank at 62x my sps is well over 100x

In the end its how you use it but I haven't run into too much flow yet. Well only if I aim a stream the wrong way .

NuclearReefs · #10 08/31/2006, 04:52 PM

I agree with Clkwrk on this.....

My 40 breeder has a mag 18 return
One MJmod 1200 moving Id say another 1500 an hour and 2 other maxi jet 900's...

Since adding the Mod Mj1200 im noticing alot better coloration.... and i can see changes daily

ScotchMaster · #11 08/31/2006, 06:28 PM

The problem with my tank is its a 60 cube so there isnt much more flow that I can add that wont sand storm it I dont think...I have 2 seio 620's maybe Ill buy a couple 820's and use those instead...Thanks guys

clkwrk · #12 08/31/2006, 06:52 PM

You can add low velocity flow .....

JJohn · #13 08/31/2006, 09:36 PM

Again, can anyone take a stab at the questions:

Are the more saturated blues, purples, and pinks really a sign of better health? And why?

I really would like to learn something here.

Thanks again,
John

NuclearReefs · #14 08/31/2006, 10:02 PM

Actually before Dana Riddle left Aquatic Wildlife in Cleveland Tennessee i was spending some time with him when he was really getting into the whole light spectrum analysis deal.

Truely from what i understood from him is that corals coloring up is actually there defense mechanism to the light we throw at them, IE a suntan .. The zooxanthelle algea on the insides of the tissue reacts to the color spectrum and adapts hence the color changing. It also indicated that use of disolved nutrients in the water were taken in by the corals and utilized as energy .

Lack of certain elements of over abbundance of them would either hender or speed up the metabolism of the coral tissue.. Greens are the more common because phosphate ions generally grow green in the algeas...

that make any sense?

Nathan

clkwrk · #15 08/31/2006, 10:10 PM

Also IMO corals have a genetic color gene or 2 . I have been able to return the orginal colors on fresh wild imports and even imported mariculture corals. IMO if everything is inline in a tank there is no reason a corals true colors shouldn't come out .

jay24k · #16 08/31/2006, 11:11 PM

If you do it correctly, you can have lower flow but I am upgrading it as I feel I need more. After seeing Melev's video, I feel I'm on the low end. However my corals have very vibrant and strong colors. I currently only have a seio 1100 and 1500 and a 900 gph return. I believe I need more but my tank is over a year and half old with no issues. I originally had a 44 gallon tank prior to that and moved everything over.

JJohn · #17 09/01/2006, 12:30 AM

You have a beautiful tank jay24k. I think this probably means that you have most variables dialed in fairly well. I still have a long way to go but, I am still learning and for me that is the fun part.

Thanks Nuc-reef for a piece of the puzzle. I will keep experimenting. Maybe I'll add yet another MJ1200 (I have an extra) and see if that makes things even better.

Clkwrk: is there any low velocity flow generators besides Tunzes's?

The question of coral health and color may be impossible to answer. How much flow is really needed to maximize color and growth is another question.

Thanks,
John

clkwrk · #18 09/01/2006, 01:14 AM

Yeah a closed loop with large outputs.

RichConley · #19 09/01/2006, 09:37 AM

Jjohn, just wanted to point out that basically anything with a large output will give you low velocity. Whether its surges, or maxistreams, or vortecs, or tunzes.

JJohn · #20 09/01/2006, 12:49 PM

Thanks. That is the direction I want to go. Low velocity flow but large volume movement. I have been experimenting with diffusers on MJ1200's but have not been thrilled so far. I just happen to have a bunch of these guys and don't want to spend more to upgrade to Tunze.

Thanks again Clkwrk and RichConley,
John

RichConley · #21 09/01/2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JJohn
I just happen to have a bunch of these guys and don't want to spend more to upgrade to Tunze.

Thanks again Clkwrk and RichConley,
John

Take a look at the "hitchikers guide to the maximod" thread in the DIY forum. It could be the solution to your problems.