Wholesale

[efisher]

Everyone a while back I posted about wholesale prices and sent a few of you a pricelist. I was trying to help everyone save a few dollars and it came back and bit my in the butt. Someone from LIRA reported me to Bayside and that was not cool. who ever ratted me out and you know who you are thanks alot. I guess lesson learned. I will not be offering to get products again and definetly will not be sending prices or pricelists out.

[cali_reef]

Its all about the business here. Too much commercial interest, not about the hobby. That is too bad.

[joefish]

That Stinks !


What's Bayside ? I never heard of them . Besides I didn't think you were doing anything wrong other then doing a favor for fellow hobbyists .

Well anyway sorry that your efforts went to the wayside .

[diverrad]

name some names

[fishome25]

Its all about the business here. Too much commercial interest, not about the hobby. That is too bad.

If everyone bought at wholesale there would be NO hobby left.
Although now that I'm rereading that quote, maybe you are defending what the mystery person did. Could you be saying everyone here only has commercial interest and wants to save "a few dollars" rather than preserving the hobby and supporting your lfs?

BTW it wasn't me, but I can't say I disagree

[cali_reef]

Bayside is a dry goods distributor.

[cali_reef]

I don't think everyone can buy at wholesale places, you need the connection and volume to place the order. I am in no way defending what the mystery person did, in fact I think he is a cower for not publicly protecting his interest. He should post in the same thread or PM efisher if he has a problem with efisher posting prices.

There are too many people in the club selling stuff trying to make a living, too many people have a commercial interest and we don't benefit when a opportunity present it self to save us a few bucks. You can't even give bad reviews on their products in public without him lying to others about the specifics. I do buy from a few LFS but not everyone of them because I don't think they all deserve to be in business. How is buying drygoods from LFS preserve the hobby? I would say most people that are really into the "hobby" buy their stuff from the cheapest source, and that is usually on-line.

[cali_reef]

Tom, how is buying from you any different than buying from a guy who can get you stuff off a wholesale list? Other than you charge a few dollars more for your time and utility to hold the stuff, I don't think you are feeding a family with all the profit. How does that preserve the LFS?

I have no problem with buying stuff from you if you have what I want, cheaper or not is not one of my criteria in making that decision because I know you would not and have not try to rip anyone off.

[efisher]

I was not trying to take away business from the lfs around the island. Although I would say a few of them dont deserve to be in business especially the one south of 27 on 112. They are a complete rip off. Infact I still buy from Aquahut and anything large like lighting,skimmers,etc are cheaper through online or wholesale and since I am not trying to make a living or profit from this I was just trying to pass some savings around to local club memebers and infact price isnt the issue all the time. If the LFS has the product in stock that I want I usually buy it. If they have to order it then I might as well save myself a few dollars and order it myself.

[fishome25]

well Pierce I agree with you. I would not have none that to efisher. If it was a concern of mine I would have approached him privately. I didn't intend to direct anything harsh at you Pierce and didn't expect a big debate here. But I'll try and answer what you have asked.

I do buy from a few LFS but not everyone of them because I don't think they all deserve to be in business.

I'd also like to point out that I agree totally with this, some are crooks and shouldn't be supported in any way.

How is buying drygoods from LFS preserve the hobby? I would say most people that are really into the "hobby" buy their stuff from the cheapest source, and that is usually on-line.

In most cases dry goods is where pet shops make their money, livestock is to draw people in. If there were no lfs, most of us would never have gotten started. If new aquarists don't take on this hobby it will slowly die off. Sure you could argue that we could get everything online, now you can, but thats usually not how people are introduced to the hobby. Of course people are going to buy from the cheapest source, I know I do. and sure I've bought online plenty of times. And I should rephrase my previous comment, what I should have said was to support the business of your choice. Although now I go to a lfs that will match online prices so its good for both of us.

Tom, how is buying from you any different than buying from a guy who can get you stuff off a wholesale list? Other than you charge a few dollars more for your time and utility to hold the stuff, I don't think you are feeding a family with all the profit. How does that preserve the LFS?

I'm not going to make this person, (don't want to and I'm not allowed to talk about that on RC anyway) and I'm really sure what you are asking. However just b/c someone is young and thank goodness doesn't have a family to feed, doesn't mean he doesn't need an income.

[dougwilliams]

Choosing my words carefully...

I think in general this site caters to the business owners - be they small or large - and not the hobbyist. Hmm- well thats a bit misleading- theres tons of hobbyist info here and that great - but when there is conflict it would appear to me that the non-hobbyist wins. I'm not saying anything good or bad about RC with that- just what I perceive.

Unfortunately - it's very tough to draw the line between a hobbyist and a small business and a large business and thats where there is always trouble.

My guess is when someone thought they were doing the hobbyist a favor - the small personal businesses and small businesses and maybe some large ones felt threatened. The "hobbyist" isnt supposed to be able to purchase items wholesale and thats what keeps all businesses in buisiness. The "hobbyist" has no need to buy in bulk - and thus they go online to a retailer or LFS or local people to purchase a small quantity of what they want - and everyone is happy. The businesses have invested capital to be able to buy in bulk from a wholesaler - and they assume the burden of the extra product.

When someone comes along and offers something wholesale- they are essentially cutting out the need for all the businesses - and thus become an immediate threat to all of them.

It this was trly a hobbyists site, that kind of thing would be good- it would be beneficial. RC is not a hobbyists site though - it's a source of information yes, but they are funded by corporations (look at the banner on top of every web page here). They get their money drom businesses- and thus look out for their needs - otherwise they no longer will have corporate sponsors.

Yes, you can pay to become a premium member here- but (personal opinion only- not a recommendation for the viewing public) - I would never buy a premium membership here. What would you get? The ability to have higher priority searches? I've NEVER had a search work here anyway- so why would I want to have higher access to something that apparently doesnt work? And - in the end I think we all know that the paid sponsors are always going to get priority here.

So, what I've learned is that you have to understand what it is here and play within those boundaries and if you dont people are going to get angry. It's a great place to meet people and talk back and forth about most things... and a good source of information. Unfortunately, theres a very large group of people here - who are in the gray area of hobbyist and personal business - theres no way to draw a concrete line here and no way to police that. So every day it would seem to me that someone is breaking the rules - but because their business is word of mouth only it goes "unnoticed". When you speak a bit louder and post sales here youre stepping on other peoples toes and taking away their business.

In my view - this place is a business that happens to be very nice in that they run a huge online gathering place for trade of info.

(mods feel free to edit as you will if necessary - i'm just trying to state my view of how things run here...)

[MIKE NY]

In my view - this place is a business that happens to be very nice in that they run a huge online gathering place for trade of info.

exactly, it is a great place to exchange info and meet people,but sometimes it's made very obvious that it is a business. I can see this thread being closed soon.....

[DgenR8]

I see no need to close this thread, not at this point.
Doug is actually correct on a few of his "guesses" (I don't know how else to put it, there was no offense intended). The hobbyist is a higher priority than he appears to think, and sponsors are not put on a pedestal. There have been sponsors dropped, and even banned from RC for nefarious behavior, all because the hobbyist IS important to what RC is, and what we want it to become.
I don't think anyone (that has any idea what they're talking about) has ever denied that Reef Central is a business. It's a dot com, not a dot org. Realize that not every business actually makes money. I don't know if RC is in the black or not, but I know the operating expenses are astronomical.
On to the subject of this thread, there is enough commercial interest in this club alone to rival small chain stores. Who reported efisher to the wholesaler? I haven't the slightest idea, but I do know that there is a large pool of potential tattle tails to choose from. Also consider who else is reading this forum from all over the country, even the planet. We often get posts here from people in Arkansas and other far off places that want to buy what LIRA members post for sale.
This club has become what we made it, like it or not.
.

[ebelz]

It is a shame that someone had to rat. I wish I knew what Store owner in LI did it because i would simply spread the word to everyone I know, not to shop there and hurt them in their pocket.

[cali_reef]

My guess is someone that frequents this board and does business with Bayside, I think you can rule out a LFS.

[ebelz]

efisher, ya know what its Baysides loss call me I have 2 other wholesalers who offer almost the same products for the same prices.

[dougwilliams]

Yes- it definately didnt have to be an LFS that said anything. Couldve been anyone who sells stuff and didnt want the competition. Was it a good or bad thing to do- I have no opinion or comment.

Larry- No offense at all... my "guesses" are just my own perception. I'm always open to debate and constructive criticism.

[Reef Junkie]

This website was started in 1999 with intent on creating a better place for hobbyists to exchange information. It was created with the intent that flaming would not be tolerated. Which was happening on a wholesale level in Aqualink.
The original owner of RC brought in a lot of members, but it wasn't until the current owner took over that it began to flourish. It's been many years since RC has become as big as it is and it's all because of us. Yet, like Larry mentioned, to keep the magnatude of information that RC has, it costs A LOT of money. More then most of us could ever afford. The owner had no choice but to invite sponsors in to help keep the site going. Otherwise it would be another reefs.org, going nowhere...
But in the end it's still us that keep this site alive.

So, to reiterate what Doug and Larry said, it IS a business.
Now think of all the great contacts and information you have made because of RC. I know just about all of the animals in my tank and a lot of the knowledge in my head is thanks to RC.
How do we thank RC? We solicite the sponsors that help pay to keep the #1 "free" reef website in the world up and running.

Now, speaking from a sponsors point of view (I am not one), I would be PO'd if I were paying a lot of money to advertise my wares on this website and along comes Joe-shmoe sneaking in and selling the same merchandise and not paying the overhead for the advertising here. Sure, maybe he's doing us a favor, but in the end, Joe-schmoe hurts us more then helps. He hurts the business that helps keep this great website alive.

So, you tell me? If you were a business owner, wouldn't you be a bit put off if someone was cutting you out of the picture for free?

yet, I cannot help think about one of LIRA's biggest sponsors being "cut" out of the picture. We all enjoy our one Saturday a month at Les's dance studio. He has offered it up consistently for how long? 2+years, yet it's ok for a member to cut him out of the equation. It's the same thing with RC.

I also did not rat this person out and I think it was crappy that he did not approach efisher first.

Maybe we should all stop being so selfish and give back to the "business" community that has given us all of these resources.

<---Proud RC Premium Member and LIRA member.

[Justjoe]

Originally posted by Reef Junkie
and along comes Joe-shmoe sneaking in

Hey,
My middle name is shmoe so watch it!!

I don't know if this is the same event when a wholesale listing was going to be sent to whoever asked it, but either way, wholesalers that I know don't encourage and don't want anyone doing such things, as it circumvents their main clients, and those clients would then find other sources which would lead to the demise of that wholesaler.
Competition is good for all of us, but there is a limit.
If it puts some pressure on some stores that are complacent or over charging and makes them get in better quality specimens or more of them, then thats a good thing but offering up true wholesale pricing to the general public is not a good thing for the industry and not good long term to the hobbyist.
Joe "changing my middle name"

[Reef Junkie]

Sorry Joe, I didn't know...

[billsreef]

Don't know about how Bayside found out about efisher, and don't really care to be honest about it. Obviously if they cut him off, he misrepresented himself to them. The only involvement RC had with efisher, was to inform him that buying wholesale and reselling was taboo on RC. So this current issue does not have anything to do with RC or how RC is run. So I don't how the conversation went in that direction.

Larry and Bill made some excellent factual points BTW. There have indeed been sponsors that have not only been dropped, but banned for not following the "no commercial posting" rules. So obviously the sponsors are not put first. Ok, maybe not so obvious since we don't go public with that sort of dirty laundry. Also many, many small and even large business owners have been banned for selling and/or promoting their business. So how that makes RC catering to business owners over hobbyist I don't know, as it sure seems the other way around to me. Else I'd be pimping my own business as well as would Tom, Tony, Les, Cindy and a few others Yes, RC is run business like, but not for the sake of business. It is just the only way to do things efficiently on something the size and scope of RC and Reefkeeping mag. Heck even our club, and most for that matter, are run business like.

[ebelz]

From what I understand the wholesale prices were never posted. They were just very competitive prices. No one can can just post wholesale prices and expect not to lose some money. I believe the cost of shipping and some extra was added to cover at least the administrative task of placing orders. Efisher was simply trying to extend good pricing benefits to LIRA members I dont think it was even designed to be a reefcentral thing. He just happened to post here to grab the attention of LIRA members. All I can say is Efisher, lesson well learned! and thats what you get for trying to do something for others!

[MIKE NY]

Here's my take on this whole thing. Even though it was a good thing that he was trying to do for all of us hobbiest. It was unfair for all those who are in the business and pay alot for advertising rights here.........and NO I'm not the rat...I thought Bayside was town in Queens.......LOL

[ebelz]

hey its your guys pockets! If you choose your loyalty to local LFS versus your own pocket thats your call. Personally If the LFS has reasonable prices I will buy from them. If they are through the roof which is mostly the case then I will buy elseware its as simple as that. My loyalty is to my family and our pockets. lol

[MIKE NY]

I totally agree with your statement...quality and price are always factors on any of my purchases, but the problem I see here is that it was being posted in an open forum where people pay for the right to adverise here and my understanding is they aren't allowed to hawk there stuff in a forum..........geez I'm sounding like a moderator.....Larry, Bill somebody ban me.........LOL