Need a little input on treating fishes with parasite

naterd1976 · #1 05/19/2005, 09:45 PM

Hello everyone.

I have a little problem on my hands.

I believe 1 of my true percs has some sort of parasite. I can really nail it down but it looks like brooklynella.

white stringy poop
breathing hard
staying in high flow areas or at top of tank
pale

I dont think its ich because there is no visible white spots, I really cant see any areas that are blotchy white either. This is throwing me off a little. Maybe just some simple internal parasite infestation.

Here is my plan to remedy this isse:

I've just bought a cheap 20 simple setup for QT.

plan on doing the formalin dip treatment

then treat with cupramine(iron) until all symptom are gone for 3 to 4 weeks

I plan on doing this for all (3) of my fishes

While doing the QT thing, I plan on leaving my 90 gal fishless for 2 months to hopefully starve all the parasites to death.

After some reasearch, it appears all of my inverts and coral frags will be OK in the 90 and shouldn't harbor any of these parasites. Does this sound right to you all?

Please give me some input if you have any experience with parasites (medications, methods, timeframes, etc...) I will greatly appreciate it.

Nathan

TheMcs · #2 05/19/2005, 10:02 PM

I had good luck treating my ocellaris with hyposalinity treatment. Took about 2 months but worked great. Can't find the link with the method though. I did it in a 10 gal q tank.

oddballs · #3 05/20/2005, 11:52 AM

nate ive had a lot of luck with some garlic flaked food and a non medicated anti parasite food ive had great sucess using them together along w freshwater dips.if you need some call me.

TheMcs · #4 05/20/2005, 11:56 AM

Ah, forgot the FW dips. I think that's what finally pushed things over the edge in my favor.
I did 2 at 90 seconds each, a couple days between each.

naterd1976 · #5 05/20/2005, 08:26 PM

Thanks for the replies Greg and Scott.

I'm torn between the FW dip and the formalin dip. I've read that the FW dip doesn't work for all parasites but it seems to be the most used. I still have awhile before the QT is cycled, so if anyone else wants to chime in, please do so.

In the fresh water dip method, I've heard you have to use baking soda to get the PH to around 8.0 and get the temp the same as the tank. I've also heard that an 8 minute dip is neccessary. Has anyone else heard this?

Nate

TheMcs · #6 05/20/2005, 10:10 PM

I did use an airstone and pH buffer in the FW dip container. I got the temp as close as possible just to avoid further shock.
I've never heard 8 minutes. I read to do 2 minutes, and chickened out after 90 seconds. Seemed to have worked though.

oddballs · #7 05/21/2005, 02:07 PM

the 8 minute dip is in extreme cases of velvet i beleive ? odiniom i think is what they call it its the very gnarlyone that they dont usally survive much.my hippo acted like she had ick (flashing and scratching)ive been treating her for 3 days with new life spectrum garlic inhanced flakes(which she and everybody else inhale)and new life non medicated anti parasite small pellets(they gobble them w glee)as of today no more flashing and i did not do 1 fw dip !all in the confines of our reef tank!!

naterd1976 · #8 05/21/2005, 03:59 PM

In Dr. Joyce Wilkerson's book "Clownfishes, pg. 111" she said to do a 15 min freshwater dip to treat Brooklynella, which I think is what my fish has. I just performed the 15 min freshwater dip and the clown seems to have survived the ordeal. I guess we will see in the morning. I figured he was tortured enough with the parasite so I figured the 15 minutes in hell would be worth it in the long run. I will let you all know how it turns out.

TheMcs · #9 05/21/2005, 04:45 PM

Geez, we give our expert opinions and he goes with what some doctor says?!?!

Hope it worked man!

naterd1976 · #10 05/21/2005, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheMcs
Geez, we give our expert opinions and he goes with what some doctor says?!?!

LOL! I was just confused, every book and everyone gave different treatment methods. So I just did the method that seemed right. Since my QT isn't cycled, I thought a tough FW dip would at least give me an idea of wath my fish has and wouldn't require any chemicals, if it doesn't work, at least I narrowed the list of methods and parasites down a little.
Nate

Hope it worked man!

oddballs · #11 05/22/2005, 12:24 PM

how is the fish today nate?

pwhitby · #12 05/22/2005, 05:33 PM

Brook is very difficult to treat. Formalin treatments work, and like hyposalinity, you have to be xtremely careful how you do them. Unfortunately, the survival from brook is not high. Hopefully you dont have brook, it usually has a white stringy appearance on the fish.

Sorry...

P.

naterd1976 · #13 05/22/2005, 08:56 PM

Tough clown, still kicking today but I'm not convinced the worst is over for him. He still is really pale, fins look real bad, not really eating. It's like the FW dip melted his fins. I know this not to be true, probably other 2 fish picking on him. I just wish my QT was cycled, so I could treat him in there.

As far as Brooklynella, I'm still not 100% positive that this is the parasites I'm treating. I think its either Brook or Marine Velvet. Both diseases have very similar symptoms. I just wish I knew.

I'm afraid if I try the Formilin dip it might do him in. I think I will give him a couple days, do the Formalin and put him in the QT. If the tank isn't cycled I will just do daily water changes.

quaz · #14 05/22/2005, 10:38 PM

I've used tank water in a bare qt tank so there is no need to cycle. You'll just have to do frequent water changes, use an air bubbler, heater, and power head. check ph for swings and then you can medicate.

Dips seem to work as well, I've never gone past 10 min.

Clowns seem to never come through once they get like that though. Hope yours fights through.

Thumper1 · #15 05/22/2005, 11:12 PM

I set my QT up the same way, bare bottom with water from my main tank and use a ph and heater. I would be scared to death my other fish were infected if left in my main tank. Ihope it all works out well.

Emerald · #16 05/26/2005, 12:32 AM

Nate, why do you think it is brook or velvet? If they have no outward appearance of parasites, it is likely an internal affliction. Both of those diseases require different treatments, so you need to be sure of what you are treating before you start. If you can describe the appearance and behavior in more detail, I can help.

FW dips can be really stressful for some fish, while others tolerate it well. The biggest problem is that ich can survive for more than 18 hrs in FW, so FW dipping is usually ineffective.

Go to the LFS and find some "metronidazole" you may have to read the back of the packages to find it. It is also known as Hex A Mit, or Flagyl, or Aquazole. You can break open the capsules and add a small amount to some frozen food and let it sit for 20 min. You can feed this in your reef tank, but you need to run fresh carbon and change it regularly. This will take care of any internal parasites.

When you are QTing, like everyone else says just use water from the main tank to start it. Water does not contain enough of the necessary bacteria to consider it cycled though. Daily water changes may be necessary, but they can be quick and easy once you get the hang of things. Seachem makes a little gadget called an Ammonia Alert and it changes color when it detects ammonia. I keep one in my QT at all times, but I still recommend checking the ammonia with a regular test kit occasionally.

Here is a simple QT article that may help:
http://www.syngnathid.org/articles/b...ntinetank.html

oddballs · #17 05/26/2005, 06:21 PM

i gave nates wife some metrdiazanole great spelling huh!!when she came to get the anti parasite food and the garlic flakes.but she forgot to take it with her.we noticed the bag on the counter after she left!!

naterd1976 · #18 05/26/2005, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Emerald
Nate, why do you think it is brook or velvet? If they have no outward appearance of parasites, it is likely an internal affliction. Both of those diseases require different treatments, so you need to be sure of what you are treating before you start. If you can describe the appearance and behavior in more detail, I can help.

FW dips can be really stressful for some fish, while others tolerate it well. The biggest problem is that ich can survive for more than 18 hrs in FW, so FW dipping is usually ineffective.

Go to the LFS and find some "metronidazole" you may have to read the back of the packages to find it. It is also known as Hex A Mit, or Flagyl, or Aquazole. You can break open the capsules and add a small amount to some frozen food and let it sit for 20 min. You can feed this in your reef tank, but you need to run fresh carbon and change it regularly. This will take care of any internal parasites.

When you are QTing, like everyone else says just use water from the main tank to start it. Water does not contain enough of the necessary bacteria to consider it cycled though. Daily water changes may be necessary, but they can be quick and easy once you get the hang of things. Seachem makes a little gadget called an Ammonia Alert and it changes color when it detects ammonia. I keep one in my QT at all times, but I still recommend checking the ammonia with a regular test kit occasionally.

Here is a simple QT article that may help:
http://www.syngnathid.org/articles/b...ntinetank.html

]
]

The clown didn't make it.

The symptoms were as follows:

pale
white stringy poop
swimming at the surface or in high flow area
frayed fins
not eating

I couldn't see any spots like ich on the fish. The discoloration or paleness made me believe it was velvet or brook, but I could have over reacted.

recieved the fish from online vendor about 2 weeks previous, noticed slight paleness from the beginning.

In that shipment I also recieved a 2nd true perc althought the one that died could have been a flase perc, I had my suspicions. I noticed that the clown that wasn't afflicted by the parasite picked on the sick one.

Tank is only about 2 months old since inception, cycled for about a month. 2 clowns went in about a week after completed cycle with live rock. I purhcased a Royal Gramma from addballs about a week after recieving the two clowns.

The gramma and 2nd clown have no symptoms of anything at the moment. I've been feeding the nonmedicated anti-parasite food to them just to make sure.

I think the stress of a new tank and being picked on probably lowered his immune system enough to get sick. What do you think? Do you still feel I should move the other two fish to the QT and treat them with metronidazole if they are showing no symptoms?

I wouldn't recommend the 15 FW dip, I think that put him over the edge.

I appreciate the help.

Nate

naterd1976 · #19 05/26/2005, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oddballs
i gave nates wife some metrdiazanole great spelling huh!!when she came to get the anti parasite food and the garlic flakes.but she forgot to take it with her.we noticed the bag on the counter after she left!!

Scott,

You gave her the bottle instead of the bag, I will drop it by when I'm in the area. Appreciate your help!!!