How Do I To Controll This Hyrdozoan?

bajathree · #1 12/03/2001, 08:44 PM

I placed this question in Erics forum and he said you may have more ideas on it. The Hyrdozoan is Myrionema amboinensis . It is spreading through my tanks and am looking for something to controll it. Maybe fish, urchin,nudibranchs

It is interesting looking but it is starting to spread a little to much.

rshimek · #2 12/06/2001, 10:32 AM

Hi,

Well, it is an interesting looking critter.

I think you have a couple of choices, but none of them are really very good.

First (and most certain), get a pair of watchmakers forceps and use these to pick it off the rocks. You should actually be able peel large sections off pretty easily.

Second: predators.... Well, none that I know of specifically. Nudibranchs are specific predators, which means each hydroid eating species only eats a few selected species of hydroids. So you would have to find the particular on that eats this species. I am sure there are probably several species that eat it. I am equally sure we haven't a clue what they are... and, for certain sure, that they are impossible to get in the hobby.

I don't know of any fish predators upon hydroids.

As far as urchins... Pencil urchins are generally carnivorous and I suspect they would eat it. However, they are also likely to eat soft corals, corals, etc. Basically, they eat anything they can catch.

Another option are keyhole limpets. These are also grazing carnivores, and might eat it.

Sorry not to be of more help.

bajathree · #3 12/06/2001, 03:19 PM

I have been using tweezers to pull it off the rock only to have it grow back in time. I have even removed and brushed rock and had it return over time again. Any ideas of where to get keyhole limpets

NaCl · #4 12/06/2001, 04:39 PM

bajathree,

i will pay you to ship me some of it.

seriously.l

Lutefisk · #5 12/06/2001, 07:23 PM

I had these guys arrive as hitchikers. At first they looked great blowing in the current. Then they began to spread. After having read the article about them I decided that the sooner I took care of it the better.

I tried plucking them underwater - no good

I tried pulling out the rocks, scraping where they were, and then toasting them with a cigarette lighter - they came back

Then I pulled out the rock, scraped, and then hit the area with a wire wheel on Dremel tool - They're gone!!

My advice - get them while you can.

Paul

Guy · #6 12/06/2001, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajathree
Any ideas of where to get keyhole limpets

I received some on Florida rock. Post a question to Gulf-View in the Vendor Forum and see if they would be willing to collect some for you.

bajathree · #7 12/06/2001, 09:02 PM

NaCl, you want some no problem. I just did a major prune so just give me a bit and I will have plenty.
Removing rock is not really an option here. This is a 130 that has over 250lbs of LR and some very grown in SPS. I would have to rip the entire tank apart, and then am still not guarantied that it will not return. Short of bleaching the rock

I am sure a few spores will survive. I talked with Mike at Inland and he said he had noticed that once putting a shipment of 100 Peperments in a 40gal with Hyrdoids,that they ate all the heads off. I picked up 8 today just to see if I notice they picking. If I do I will put in a large number. I have some right against my Montipora Capricornis and they have not bothered it. That is a good sign since that is a very sensitive coral to stings. Mike said the ones in his tank stung the hell out of him when he rubbed against them. I rubbed my are on them and I had no problem. I guess there are different types when it comes to stinging

In any case I really see no option now except living with them. What is the alternative, rip apart my reef

I do not accept that as a solution

rshimek · #8 12/07/2001, 10:55 AM

Hi,

I would also recommend that you contact Teresa at Sea Critters (www.sea-critters.com), I have gotten keyhole limpets from her in the past.

Good luck.

NaCl · #9 12/07/2001, 02:12 PM

bajathree,

ok, i will e-mail you in a week or so, if that's ok?
i'm thinking of using them for nutrient export in
my refugium.

bajathree · #10 12/08/2001, 12:24 PM

I have a feeling that I may have some explanation for the sudden spread. I have had a colony living in my 25 for over a year now. It stayed very contained on the rock it grew on and spread very little. A few months ago I started feeding Reef Solution daily. That is about the same time that they took off and really started spreading. I guess it is a catch 22, the reef solution is working on both good and bad. I am not blaming the Reef Solution but I do feel it is feeding it and contributing to it's sudden spread. I am going to discontinue feeding it for a month or two and see if it's growth slows.
NaCl, I do not know if that is something you want to do. This stuff is not going to stay in your refugium. A spore or two will flow back into the main tank without doubt and that is all you need. Think about it first but I do not want to be the blame of Hydroids in your display tank

NaCl · #11 12/08/2001, 02:05 PM

yeah, however, it can't be worse than hair algae and cyano..

Ironreef · #12 12/09/2001, 12:21 PM

FWIW LFS (SWC) used a file fish in there tank,but I'm not sure what kind. They had a bad problems with hydroids. I belive the fish did eat them but it took a couple tries. = Diffent kinds/types of fish. But the advantage to owning a fish store is you can put them in trap them out and have ppl watching them the fish all day. I dunno if this is common. Probally not but worth looking into?? It looked like a Saddled Filefish= Paraluteres prionurus. But it may eat other things also. But maybe easier to get out than coral eating snails??

bajathree · #13 12/09/2001, 02:20 PM

Thanks for the info. I am leaving fish controll as a last option. I have never had luck getting a problem fish out of my reef short of having to take apart the entire tank. I am curious, did they try CopperBand Buterflies. That is a fish I thought might possibly work. The problem with fish controll is that each fish seems to be a hit or miss with if it will touch what it is supposed to take care of in the first place and then like mentioned getting him out before he eats everything else. DId that FileFish they put in eat corals to

LPSman · #14 12/09/2001, 02:43 PM

Hi there,

This is quiet a timely thread as a guy came into the LFS today cursing as he presentley has these as a big problem in his tank.
They seem to be (from what i can gather) appearing rapidly.

We did a search here a have gone down the route of Pencil urchins....so hopefully i can keep you posted as to if they make any inroads

Ironreef · #15 12/09/2001, 09:13 PM

You are right about fish control. Buy a fish to do a job = it won't do it. But LFS has the advantage put it in take it out. They have all day to catch it in there trap. They tried various Butterflies. The file was the only fish to eat them. It must have worked cuz they had a tankful but its all gone now.

bajathree · #16 12/10/2001, 08:33 AM

LPSman, I have also added a pencil urchin this weekend as I do not seem to be locating Keyhole Limpets quickly. So far he has stayed pretty much in one area where there are no hydroids

so I cannot report yet.
Ironreef, I am still curious if the Filefish also damaged corals on his quest for hydroids

I have also added 8 Peperment shrimp a few day's back, forget that route

at least in my 130. I have only seen one since I added it and it was eating a cube of Formula2. Maybe more something to try on my 25gal. In any case it was reported that they did see the heads eaten off the hydroids when added on a 1/1gal ratio. There is no way that will work on a large tank.

NaCl · #17 12/10/2001, 02:45 PM

i had a filefish briefly, before i realized the value of a screened
pump intake

Anyway, it was a really neat fish. it would change color with
it's mood and as far as predation, it pretty much wiped out
my sandbed for awhile

it would 'blow' water to get it's
morsels from the substrait. However it didn't bother any of
the corals. But i tend to agree that if something is going to
eat polyps, it's probably going to eat more than just one kind
of polyp. i bet there is a nudibracht that would selectively
control your hydroids but who knows what species of slug
it is.

jimroth · #18 12/10/2001, 06:00 PM

I bought a copperband to control my aiptasia. Aiptasia were all eaten, after the fanworms. The nameless hydroid we are all supporting was untouched and survives to this day, although the copper has since died and the aiptasia have not returned.
Hey, maybe we should have a give-the-hydroid-a-stupid-common-name contest.
Weedroids?
Sea Dandelions?
Fuzzbusters?
I know, I got too much time on my hands...

bajathree · #19 12/10/2001, 07:56 PM

Jim, I have identified the species of Hydroid. It is Myrionema amboinensis
I got luck at the LFS today. I was looking over their LR and found a nice 1" Keyhole. Well it's only one but it is a start.
Dr. Ron I got a question, how many Keyhole's would you recomend to put in my 130

I have about 3 rock companies in Fl trying to locate some for me and they have asked me how many I would be needing.

bajathree · #20 12/11/2001, 09:29 AM

Dr. Ron I got a question, how many Keyhole's would you recomend to put in my 130 I have about 3 rock companies in Fl trying to locate some for me and they have asked me how many I would be needing.

rshimek · #21 12/11/2001, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajathree

Hi,

Dr. Ron I got a question, how many Keyhole's would you recomend to put in my 130 I have about 3 rock companies in Fl trying to locate some for me and they have asked me how many I would be needing.

I really don't know how many to suggest - and keep in mind it is a bit of shot in the dark if they will work at all. I would guess at least a half dozen larger ones (1" long) or more smaller ones.

The pencil urchin remedy may also be viable, as these are carnivores on sessile animals.

Do let us know what happens, please.

bajathree · #22 12/11/2001, 10:09 AM

I am going to try adding a couple more pencil urchins as one I do not believe is enough. It has been 3 day's now and he has stayed in the same area. Of course where there are no hydroids

He has done a great job of cleaning the rock in that area however..lol As far as the single Keyhole, it is to early to say. I will keep you informed on the progress. I have started to take pix of the infected areas to be able to keep track of any progress. I did notice yesterday that some red scarlets were sifting through the hydroids looking for food. In the process they ate some of the heads off them. It was not a lot, but enough to notice. The stalks however were still present. This may keep in track with what was noticed at Inland Aqautics. In very high concentration of Peperment shrimps all the heads were eaten. However it would look like you would have to practical inundate the tank with these critters to see the hydroids eaten faster than they grow. As for aditional Keyhole's I am still waiting to hear back from the companies that are searching there rock vats for some.

rshimek · #23 12/11/2001, 10:24 AM

Hi,

Thanks for the update.

Any with just the heads eaten off will regenerate them. You need to get something that can get them down to the base, that's why I suggested the limpets and think the urchins are a good idea. In both cases, the whole individual is eaten.

Dwayne · #24 12/11/2001, 06:19 PM

Anyone know how to get a limpet to let go of the rock its on? For such a small critter they have an exceptional 'grip'.

I always wondered what these things ate.

Bajathree - I sent you an email.

Dwayne

bajathree · #25 12/11/2001, 08:10 PM

Dwane, I got your mail and responded back

I found one at the LFS the other day that was about an inch. Man, I know what you mean, it wasn't like pulling a little snail off. I twisted it back and forth untill it looseened. I was a little afraid I was going to damage it but it came off fine.