How to plumb overflow?

Syris · #1 03/02/2004, 09:11 PM

I have a 45g that I had drilled in the back and put a 1" bulkhead in for the overflow to sump. The bulkhead is roughly 6" from the top and 4" from the left tank wall. If I put a 90 elbow and pipe straight to the top of the tank with strainer, won't this cause a gurgle noise when water is draining? How can I plumb it inside the tank so that it will be fairly quiet? Should I construct an acrylic box around the hole to act as a surface skimmer?
Those with a hole drilled in the back of the tank for a drain how did you plumb it inside? Any pics?

TIA

seasno · #2 03/02/2004, 09:29 PM

Bill:

I have a 20gal high that has a very similar overflow design...I built an acrylic box for mine to work as a skimmer and siliconed it to the glass. I tried to build a Durso design for the overflow, but mine was a little tight for space. I found I could have probably made it work if the bulkhead was mounted a bit lower, but opted to just let the water drain out the bulkhead....it is a bit noisy, but it is just a frag tank in my basement so not a big deal.....the box works great for skimming though.

HTH

Scuba_Dave · #3 03/02/2004, 11:16 PM

I went without the box, and yes I have some noise. The area w/drains will be enclosed, which will cut down on the noise. I've been used to the noise from my old overflow & the 55g tank was right behind me.
I am sorta planning on building an overflow box. The main reason is to keep small fish away from the drains (I guess you should call them a thruflow). My sm hippo was stuck against one, w/1400gph+ goling thru - each one handles ~700gph, that's a lot of flow for a small fish to fight.
Of course he also was stuck against a PH intake that pushes less then 200 gph. The little wimp.

Syris · #4 03/03/2004, 08:49 AM

Thanks for the advice guys

I think I will try the acrylic box idea and a mini Durso in it.
I found a pic in a thread for a visual of what to try as well http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=328074

Looks like I have some trial and error runs to do. Hopefully I can get it as quiet as possable as this new tank will be going in my dining room (Holy ground to my wife

hence the new subtitle under my name "Dead man walking"

) Actually my wife loves the reef tanks too she just hates the money I spend on it

seasno · #5 03/03/2004, 09:18 AM

Just another thought Bill....I have found a gate valve (not a ball valve) installed on the outflow to the sump to be very helpful in fine tuning for noise. HTH

seasno · #6 03/03/2004, 09:22 AM

Meant to also say...my experience shows the gate valve should be installed close to the sump for maximum benefit.

I have got overflows installed installed three different ways, with three different box designs, in three different tanks...if you ever get up this way you are welcome to stop by and take a peek at what I did. I am also finishing up a new design using one of the 6" acrylic tubes bought off of ebay on a 40 gal frag tank set up.

Syris · #7 03/03/2004, 09:29 AM

Seasno,

Wouldn't that be risky flood wise? I would think a "restriction" such as that caused by a gate valve would be more prone to cloggin from foriegn material like algae.

BTW,

Hows the new setup coming along? Or is it already finished? Been a while since I last talked to ya.

seasno · #8 03/03/2004, 10:05 AM

Syris:

"Wouldn't that be risky flood wise?"

I think it does add an element of risk for clogs, but I don't think it is a huge risk. An 18" or 24" length of clear tubing installed just before the gate valve would let you monitor the water level (or level of restriction in the tube) mostly for tuning purposes, but could also be utilized to monitor for restrictions i.e. if the level is slowly rising over days or weeks, a cleaning may be necessary.

The new setup? I have been procrastinating over the 235 due to all of the posts about IA....I have found and I am pretty impressed with another custom builder called Aquarium Obsessed, and I am just about ready to order a 253 gal Starphire tank from him. In the meantime I have been experimenting with all the goodies I collected for the big tank install on a temp set up in my basement. I have two frag tanks ( 40 gal and 20 gal) online now in the basement along with my 72 gal bow set up above in the living room. I am just about ready to add a couple more 40 gal breeders to the same system (Those are the ones that will use the acrylic tube overflow design). (Running out of frag room LOL). Gotta get to work for now, but will check back in tonight!

Syris · #9 03/07/2004, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seasno
I have been procrastinating over the 235 due to all of the posts about IA....I have found and I am pretty impressed with another custom builder called Aquarium Obsessed, and I am just about ready to order a 253 gal Starphire tank from him.

Dont blame ya for waiting, thats a big tank

You def want a quality job done from the builder.

Finished building a overlow box and mini Durso for the 45g. I was able to get some scrap 1/4" PVC sheet from work so I used that instead of acrylic just because it isn't transparent.

Haven't tested yet, I'm still plumbing the sump.
Lights are almost done too

Then all I need is to find a good deal on 50# of LR then I can start cycling.

seasno · #10 03/07/2004, 09:41 PM

Nice Job on the overflow Bill.....and a sweet looking setup!

Bitingthesun · #11 03/08/2004, 11:36 AM

I'm thinking of doing one of these to my 33 long, keep us posted.

Scuba_Dave · #12 03/08/2004, 02:08 PM

Nice looking overflow box, I'll have to do mine one of these days

ggomez · #13 03/09/2004, 12:38 AM

nice, let me know how it works, I would like to do something similar for my 30g

Bitingthesun · #14 03/10/2004, 09:26 AM

I'm paying $50+ for one of those internal overflows.

How hard is it to make?

k.

Syris · #15 03/10/2004, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bitingthsun
I'm paying $50+ for one of those internal overflows.

How hard is it to make?

k.

Bitingsun (love that name),
I don't feel its was hard to make at all. I used 1/4" PVC sheets so it was easy to cut square and glue. I have also did something similar out of 1/4" acrylic for my refugium and felt it was a bit more harder to do because acrylic is more brittle when cutting and I used silicone to 'glue' it together.

The cost for me was minimal because I was able to get the 1/4" PVC sheets as scrap from my companies facilities shop. So the only real cost was $20 for the hole to be drilled in the back of the tank and $10 for the 1" bulkhead.

Update:
I should be water testing the overflow and plumbing this weekend. I just finished the 10g sump w/baffles and placed it in the stand last night. I need some finishing touches to the plumbing too. I also had to remove the drawer in the stand because my Remora Pro skimmer wouldn't fit with dawer in. I ripped the face of the drawer off and screwed it to the stand from the inside. So the stand still looks the same but now the drawer is a false drawer

hurleyskis · #16 03/18/2004, 08:26 AM

Could you give us some details on the overflow box?

I'm curious what the minimum size i could make would be and still provide enough flow.

Thanks

Syris · #17 03/18/2004, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hurleyskis
I'm curious what the minimum size i could make would be and still provide enough flow.

Thanks

The size of the bulkhead fitting is the limiting factor for flow to the sump. I'm using a 1" bulkhead so I should be able to get ~600GPH thru it. But this is also going to be a softy/LPS tank so I'm not looking for a lot of flow. Most shoot for 20x tank turnover for SPS corals and 10-15x tank turnover for softy/LPS corals. This turnover does not all have to be done by the overflow either, it also is accomplished thru powerheads and/or closed loops.

UPDATE:

I water tested the overflow and sump last weekend. Ran into some minor problems. For one the Durso kept flushing every few seconds in the overflow box no matter if I had a large hole or small hole in the Durso cap. After some RC searches I found that this will happen if the return pump is too strong for the overflow. I am using a MAG7 for return and I had it full throttle. I had already run a 'T" off the pump and put a ball vavle on one side to throttle the pump. So I turn the ball valve a tiny bit open and the overflow with Durso stopped flushing. It now has a nice stable level in the overflow.
The other problem was the drain line run into the sump. Was making way too much water noise for me and my wife. Again after some RC searches I found an idea to quiet it. What I did was made a "U" out of the drain line in the sump with the open end of the "u" just below the sump water level. It now is perfectly quiet

10G Sump

hurleyskis · #18 03/18/2004, 10:09 PM

Thanks for the tips Bill?

Can you explain what the black box is on the left, where your return runs into?

I am trying to run an Eheim 1260 and had the same problem...flushing every few seconds no matter what i did. I guess maybe i need to decrease the flow from the Eheim.

My tank does not have an overflow box, would you suggest putting one in or not?

Thanks for any input, and great pic!

Syris · #19 03/19/2004, 09:33 AM

hurleyskis,

The black box hanging on the left side of the sump is my Remora Pro skimmer.

Quote:

My tank does not have an overflow box, would you suggest putting one in or not?

I think the skimmer box is one of personal choice. For me I like a skimmer box in the tank, keeps the water surface free of any scum.

I saw your thread on the problem your having. I'm not sure what else I could add to it but I thought I read you were using a 3/4" bulkhead? That maybe too small for the size pump your using. Either increase the bulkhead size or drill a second one.
I know plumbing can be frustrating but with this forums help I'm sure you'll get it working the way you want.

hurleyskis · #20 03/19/2004, 10:37 AM

I'll stick with it. I may try to plumb in a tee and ball valve to cut back the flow a bit and see what happens.

I don't think an overflow box would change the way my drain is working other than what was mentioned here (keeping surface clean). I will be adding one, but for now i'll debug this plumbing without it.