Cycling with a clown trigger?? eh?

[fishinchick]

OMG - cycling your tank it's ok to use a clown trigger? Any of you read this??
Am I reading this right or do I need to clean the smog off my contacts?

http://www.robertwrose.com/marine/marine.htm

[missy1101]

Perfect example of why lots of research is necessary before starting a tank. This is the way to not set up a tank.

[skippy2]

omg!! You read right.

[Flanders]

I can't find any mention in that article of using a clown trigger to cycle a tank. I think you read wrong.

"1.2.4 Triggerfish

Triggerfish, (Huma-huma, Black Trigger, Bursa Trigger, etc), can be used to cycle a tank if done cautiously. Triggerfish can be very aggressive sometimes, (as they are carnivorous), so be careful if you decide to setup a tank with triggerfish. A general rule of thumb is to never place a fish smaller than a triggerfish in the tank with it, if you want to keep it!"

In fact, I can't find anything wrong with this article other than it's a bit basic. All the fish they said you could use for cycling are very hardy (unlike the clown trigger), and the author even said he didn't personally recommend mollies although it is possible.

[missy1101]

Cycling a tank with anything living is cruel. just because a fish might survive doesnt mean it should be done. Should they tent houses for termites and leave the people inside to see who is hardier? Hmmm might nolt be a bad idea.

[spydergst98]

Yeah - it talks about using clownfish to cycle your tank and triggerfish but no where in the article did it mention using a "Clown Trigger"

Still bad advice!!!

Later.

[Flanders]

missy - Just because you think it's cruel doesn't make it bad advice. In fact, it isn't really advice at all. This is what the author wrote about damsels:

'These fish are very hardy, and can withstand the stress of tank cycling very easily.'

Entirely factual and correct. It doesn't even advise people to do this, just states that it can be done. Unlike your post, which is not factual at all. I agree with you that fish are not needed for cycling and that it may be cruel, but chill out.

[Geepers Creepers]

He got all the diagrams and some info directly copped from a book I have.

[lilswanwillow]

call me crazy... but some parts of the article i LIKED:
quote:
1.2.7 Fish to Avoid



If you are a beginner, you must immediately walk away from Angels, Butterflies, Pipefish, Seahorses, Filefish, Mandarin Gobies, Dragonet Gobies, and Eels, and distrust any pet storeowner that tells you otherwise. Use common sense, if a fish has a highly specialized diet (or if you don’t even know what it’s diet is), then stay away from it.

[gpajon]

Originally posted by Flanders
missy - Just because you think it's cruel doesn't make it bad advice. In fact, it isn't really advice at all. This is what the author wrote about damsels:

'These fish are very hardy, and can withstand the stress of tank cycling very easily.'

Entirely factual and correct. It doesn't even advise people to do this, just states that it can be done. Unlike your post, which is not factual at all. I agree with you that fish are not needed for cycling and that it may be cruel, but chill out.

flanders- just because he did not state that it was his recomendation doesn't mean it is not taken as the thing to do. A biginner can easily interpret that as the authors intention. Besides he also mentioned "Triggerfish, (Huma-huma, Black Trigger, Bursa Trigger, etc), can be used to cycle a tank if done cautiously" this is no matter how you read it is bad information. Almost anyfish can survive a cycle if done "cautiously".

It is no longer necessary to use fish to cycle an aquarium. Having been in the Custom Aquarium business for some time now I have had many new customers want me to dismantle a tank to remove unwanted and aggressive fish which never should have been there in the first place.

[elitsoH]

all i used to cycle was lr ...ls ...and a coktail shrimp from the grocery store in a panty hose . hung in the tank

[gpajon]

Originally posted by elitsoH
all i used to cycle was lr ...ls ...and a coktail shrimp from the grocery store in a panty hose . hung in the tank

That is the way to go except the shrimp is not really needed either. Uncured live rock will have more than enough die off to produces sufficient amonia.
If the rock is purchased cure then you can add fish however keep them at a minimum and test for amonia as the rock may not have a suffient bacterial population to handle the new bio load and cause it to go through a small cycle.

Gon

[porky]

Yeah gpajon is right, you can cycle a tank with uncured LR (maybe even "cured" depending on your def. of cured) and not have to jeopardize the life of any fish. I had my LFS advise me to cycle my tank w/damsels. Thankfully I read more and found out not only is it not necessary but probably more of a pain having to fish them out later. My tank cycled in less than 2 weeks w/just live rock and live sand.

[ChasingPuck]

Well, the document is 3 years old--and while fishless cycling was known about and in use, it was not as popular as it is now. And of course, anyone following this could talk to their LFS and not get the 'You idiot, of course damsels should be used' lecture. No, not all of the advice is completely accurate, but that's more a matter of scale--if this is for a beginner, the article will be a decent foundation for additional research.

Damsels were the only fish I saw anything suggesting they could be used for cycling--it specifically says not to cycle with clowns, but to add them afterwards. I too felt that much of the advice on fish selection was good. Not very in-depth, but better than I've seen and heard other places.

[pcmechanix]

My first SW tank I cycled with damsels and I killed them both. Damn proud of it too. I did A LOT of research, just not enough. My second tank I used a cocktail shrimp.

At least I didn't buy a tank, dump in some saltwater, and fill it full of fish and corals the next day. Live and learn. The good advice you get one day may make you an evil b@st@rd the next.

[gpajon]

Originally posted by ChasingPuck
Damsels were the only fish I saw anything suggesting they could be used for cycling--it specifically says not to cycle with clowns, but to add them afterwards. I too felt that much of the advice on fish selection was good. Not very in-depth, but better than I've seen and heard other places.

Read it again, and look at the part where he says triggers can be used.

[icebear]

there is some good info there, but i also agree with the basic idea that it is unnecessary to use a live fish to introduce a cycle....seafood and LR as mentioned above are just as good
and just because a thing can be done does not mean it should

i agree with his comments on the fish beginners should avoid and the LFS that recommend them to beginners....

[Flanders]

Read it again, and look at the part where he says triggers can be used.

Are you sure triggers can't be used? Most are tough as nails. I'm sure you could use moray eels if you wanted to.

I do have no idea what cautiously means, however.

[gpajon]

Originally posted by Flanders
Are you sure triggers can't be used? Most are tough as nails. I'm sure you could use moray eels if you wanted to.

I do have no idea what cautiously means, however.

I never said that. What I said earlier was that any fish can be used but why would you? There is no need to use fish to cycle anymore.

[Flanders]

I never said that. What I said earlier was that any fish can be used but why would you? There is no need to use fish to cycle anymore.

I never said you said anything. Why did you advise us to read that part again if you agree triggers can be used? What is your point?

I think we all agree we don't need to use fish to cycle. And I disagree that any fish can be used. That is incorrect.

[zily]

1.2.3 Clownfish



Clownfish are not recommended for cycling a tank if you are a beginner, even though they are a fairly hardy fish. Once your tank is done cycling, however, these are a great fish to add to your tank.



Clownfish can be very territorial towards non-clownfish, so pick your species carefully if you decide to get clownfish. Ask your pet storeowner for compatibility.

says clownfish shouldn't be used there.......

[zily]

umm.. ignore that last post. I just got off work.. i'm tired lol


if you think about it though, why is using liverock any less cruel than using fish to cycle your tank?

-daniel

[gpajon]

Originally posted by Flanders
I never said you said anything. Why did you advise us to read that part again if you agree triggers can be used? What is your point?

I think we all agree we don't need to use fish to cycle. And I disagree that any fish can be used. That is incorrect.

This was intended for chasingpuck who said a few posts ago that damsel were the only fish suggested to be used, I was making him aware of the part where the auther says triggers can also be used if done with caution. As for the caution I can only assume he meant to try to maintain amonia levels as low as possible durring the cycle by doing water changes. This would cause the cycle to take for ever as well as not allow for adequate bacterial populations to grow.