breeding clowns.......financially viable?

[gavij012379]

Hi all clown fans

Just like you I am a big clown fan. I have a pair of GSM and true percs in different tanks! I love these fishes and plan to breed them. But i also know it takes a lot of dedication and time. so i have a question for those of you who breed clowns. How time consuming is it? How long it takes the fries to grow to a marketable size and is it worth doing it financially? Also how messy is it? How many rearing, grow-out tank do you use? I want to do it any way though. Iam living in an apartment right now and have a pretty busy schedule. And yeah where do you get the rotifers? I think my maroon pairs are ready to spawn and expecting it.

thanks

[JHardman]

Originally posted by gavij012379
Hi all clown fans

Just like you I am a big clown fan. I have a pair of GSM and true percs in different tanks! I love these fishes and plan to breed them. But i also know it takes a lot of dedication and time. so i have a question for those of you who breed clowns. How time consuming is it?

It depends on how many pairs you have and other factors like culturing of phytoplankton and rotifers. For me it is a full time and then some job, in addition to doing some IT contract work too. Just feeding your pairs can take a few hours a day.

How long it takes the fries to grow to a marketable size and is it worth doing it financially?

Marketable... This in some species like A. ocellaris being marketable is based on a size of not less than 3/4" total length (TL), most breeders will not sell before the fish is >=1" TL. In other species like GSM, A. percula and black A. ocellaris for example size is really not the thing that makes them saleable or not, its their coloration. And unfortunately coloration is a factor of diet, light to some extent, but mostly age and is quite variable.

So with sized based species you can expect with a good grow out system, feeding, etc to able to sell the fry somewhere between 3 and 6 months.

With color based species you can expect to hold them for 6-12 months before they are saleable. However you maybe able to workout a something with your local LFS(s) so that they will buy these fish sooner before their coloration is really evident. But don't count on it, as they will have to convince their customers for example that those "white bar" maroons that are twice the price of the other white bar maroons because sooner or later their bars will turn golden.

Viability... This is a hard one to answer. I guess it really depends on what you need to make, what your marketing skills are and your locally variable expenses are like. My biggest expenses are salt, water, electricity, foods. If I lived in CA I would not be able to breed clowns because of the electrical costs. Personally if your expenses are kept as low as possible and you can market your fish and stay small enough that you do not need to hire and train employees, I think a guy can make a living at it. But frankly you could have a up hill battle. WC clownfish are still quite heavy in the market and they cost a lot less than you can breed them for, and a LFS is in business to make money, rather you can convince them to go CB versus WC is another matter...

Also how messy is it?

Very.

How many rearing, grow-out tank do you use?

I keep 2-3 rearing tanks per pair. I have a couple of prolific spawners that put down (3+) nests a month and some that put down the normal (2) per month.

Grow out tanks... I really do not want to say, but I will say this... How many tanks can you fit in a 2400sqft house and still have three people living there without having to sleep in a tank?

I want to do it any way though. Iam living in an apartment right now and have a pretty busy schedule. And yeah where do you get the rotifers? I think my maroon pairs are ready to spawn and expecting it.

thanks

If I was you and living in an apartment I would not proceed with anything major or long term. Sooner or later you are going to move and when you do you pair(s) are going to stop spawning for a few weeks to never again. With maroons you are going to need lots of grow out tanks because they take a long time to be saleable. You also need to see what your market is like before starting to raise fry. If you raised every nest your maroons lay you would saturate your market. Maroons can lay thousands of eggs per nest…

Rotifers and culturing... There is a set of articles at the top of the fish breeding forum that will give you all the information you need including suppliers.

HTH

[oceanarus]

Originally posted by JHardman
WC clownfish are still quite heavy in the market and they cost a lot less than you can breed them for, and a LFS is in business to make money, rather you can convince them to go CB versus WC is another matter...

I would like to second this! This is what I fight in our area. When we first started selling them almost none of the stores bought CB clowns. So we had to make our pricing competative with the WC, as well as taking goods in trade vice getting cash. In the end I am probably getting perhaps a little more than half of what John gets per fish.

I don't dispair over this though. After a couple years of selling them CB ocellaris, they have come to appreciate the tank raised fish (much, much fewer losses and usually only when they do something stupid). So as we now have some other species of clowns spawning and even more in the works, I am getting ready to raise the prices on them a bit (to be more in line with ORA's, but still less (sorry Doug)) and work only cash only deals. I will be getting all my supplies for near wholesale from a LFS I have a very good relationship with. So long story short, we will soon be moving from having a hobby that pays for itself (I have set up two small reeftanks and we maintain many other FW tanks as well with the clownfish proceeds) to actually making a little money.

So I think it will depend on your market, if they are used to buying tankraised clowns at $7-8 each you won't have as much problems as stores that are used to paying $4-5 each for WC.

Definately get a house! Nuff said on that.

It is definatly a full time job. I think my wife likes having the excuse doing this to keep from having to go out and getting a real job (Just Kidding Honey )

[oama]

Originally posted by oceanarus
I am getting ready to raise the prices on them a bit (to be more in line with ORA's, but still less (sorry Doug))

No Problem. The market care bare it, especially with high quality breeders such as you and John. It's when people unload way too small and ussually off color fish that it hurts ALL CBers. (Just MHO)

We are still expanding our operations. Heck, I'm not even sure where I'm gonna put all these new thingies when they out grow their larval tanks!

The future's so bright I gotta ware shades!

[oceanarus]

Originally posted by oceanarus
(to be more in line with ORA's, but still less (sorry Doug))

That was more or less a joke, I know our 2 bit operation could never put a dent in what you guys do.

Once you think about it, I'm helping perhaps in a miniscule way by turning fish stores on to CB fish (so they can buy from you the ones we don't raise )

And thanks for the compliment.

[oceanarus]

Originally posted by oama
Heck, I'm not even sure where I'm gonna put all these new thingies when they out grow their larval tanks!

I'm not really that far away from you and I have a converted 2 car garage (450 sqft w/ 10 ft ceilings) that has yet to be changed from a gameroom to a fish room.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by oama
The future's so bright I gotta ware shades!

Now if you just had your operations in an non hurricane zone. Every time I hear about a big storm memories of Q-Quest come to mind. You know there is a reason (besides all the resorts) that soooooooo many big companies locate their HQs in Phoenix.

Frankly I hope ORA goes on for many many years to come. ORA sets the bar and wins over the market both at the retail and wholesale level by delivering high quality fish/inverts with a very diverse selection of CB species. I think the only thing you are missing are the angles, but it wouldn't surprise me if that is some of what is in the larva tanks now.

[oama]

Originally posted by oceanarus
That was more or less a joke, I know our 2 bit operation could never put a dent in what you guys do.

Once you think about it, I'm helping perhaps in a miniscule way by turning fish stores on to CB fish (so they can buy from you the ones we don't raise )

And thanks for the compliment.

My point exactly!

[oama]

Originally posted by JHardman
Now if you just had your operations in an non hurricane zone. Every time I hear about a big storm memories of Q-Quest come to mind.

Don't worry, John. Even if the hatcheries were blown away to over the rainbow, we would have sellable product w/in 6 months. We got it covered.

You know there is a reason (besides all the resorts) that soooooooo many big companies locate their HQs in Phoenix.

It's too dusty and hot there! And you can't even travel out 1 mile from shore and tag 3 sailfish w/in an hour there!

Frankly I hope ORA goes on for many many years to come. ORA sets the bar and wins over the market both at the retail and wholesale level by delivering high quality fish/inverts with a very diverse selection of CB species. I think the only thing you are missing are the angles, but it wouldn't surprise me if that is some of what is in the larva tanks now.

No Comment.....

[oama]

well that didn't work...

How do you break up a quote to interject comments?

[JHardman]

Originally posted by oama
No Comment.....

Chicken!!

I am glad to hear some of the IT techniques for disaster recovery have found there way in to your operations. I will breath easier now.

Now now, we are within a weekend jaunt to the gulf of California with lots of nice cheap beach and sport fishing. If it wasn't for the 3-4 months of killer (and I do mean killer) heat in the summer this place is nearly ideal.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by oama
well that didn't work...

How do you break up a quote to interject comments?

Cut and paste the tags as needed, just like HTML...

this is quoted

then you

then another quote

and so on

[Trek Rider]

gavij012379

Not sure whether the rotifer question was answered in the above posts. I am a small time, "for fun" newbie clownfish rearer. I currently have a pair of spawning Cinnamon clowns and have just purchased a pair of unmated Ocellaris clowns. I have gotten my microalgae and rotifers from Florida Aqua Farms (www.florida-aqua-farms.com). If you are new to it all, I would recommend getting their "how to" manual also. I haven't read the threads on RC so maybe everything is covered here. I bought the "Mini Culture Kit" and some live rotifers initially, as my clowns spawned unexpectedly. I have since ordered other supplies and have been pleased with their service and products.

Since this is not my job, I am focusing on minimizing expenses, producing healthy fish, and having fun. My LFSs have all voiced an interest in my stock...whether it's for cash or store credit doesn't matter at this point. Either will only fuel my "habit".

[oama]

Frank of FAF is great. Got alot of good gadgets for aquaculture and aquariums. He's on my board of directors. But we have a long history (positive in every way) before this job. I have his Plk Culture Manual dating back from the late '80's. He laughed at it's size when I showed it to him. It's a lot larger now!

He's Good People.

[melsteve]

I not as yet commercially selling clowns but eventual aim is to even though our market here is some what smaller then the US one. One thing I am doing to try and keep costs down is using tubs and "cages" within these to keep broods apart but have a high total water volume but every thing runs of one pump.
I am lucky to that I have on hand 7000 litres of sea water and I can get NSW at $100 to get this tank filled when needed.
Regards Steve