Holy Pricey Picasso's Batman!

[dzeadow]

$350 at LA's Diver's Den

[GSMguy]

that is pricey they are not nicer than than 99 dollar ones from saltwaterfish.com.

[Maximus]

How much do they usually run? $100 each?

[s3aL]

$350 for those ugly things?

[Bebo77]

yeah... they dont appeal to my eye at all....

[basser1]

My LFS has 3 pairs of them in stock for a lot less than that!!

BTW, didn't you have to make a "minimum" purchase before you could buy them for $99 from SWF.com?

[cartman5579]

I think the fad is slowly fading away!

[powder blue boi]

i saw some on bonesreef.com for $200 a piece some were very nice but very pricey!

[MJI]

Picassos (if they are indeed picassos, but from a reputable dealer who are pretty good with IDs) are going for around $40 over this side of the pond....

[dzeadow]

It's too bad shipping would make up the difference and then some, otherwise I'd have you ship a few dozen for resale

[GSMguy]

Originally posted by MJI
Picassos (if they are indeed picassos, but from a reputable dealer who are pretty good with IDs) are going for around $40 over this side of the pond....

Any LFS in London i should check out? i know of one nice place a few block from oxford circus, I am going over in a couple weeks, and would love a trip to a nice English LFS.
Where in the UK are you MJI?

[GSMguy]

Originally posted by Maximus
How much do they usually run? $100 each?

I think ORA's wholesale price is around 40-60 bucks, you can get them for around 100 a peice for the ORA's but a Nice pair could go for 400, That is not that nice of a pair.

[GSMguy]

Originally posted by powder blue boi
i saw some on bonesreef.com for $200 a piece some were very nice but very pricey!

The 200 dollar ones from there are much more impressive, lots more white, I am getting a snowflake/cotton candy from there.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by cartman5579
I think the fad is slowly fading away!

Agreend, market saturation at this time. It will pick up again in the spring.

Not to mention, so many specimens have issues with head, face, mouth development.

[dzeadow]

is that likely due to inbreeding or just nutritional issues during grow out? It'd be nice to see the prices drop a little on these, I've been interested in getting a pair for a few months but it's not worth it to spend the money on them when you can get just as nice if not nicer Rod's Onyx's for much cheaper.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by dzeadow
is that likely due to inbreeding or just nutritional issues during grow out?

In my humble opinion, parental and larval nutrition, lack of culling, over crowding, water conditions, etc., etc., all contribute to the numbers of malformed CB fish.

Some specimens will be great, some will be junk regardless of the markings. Many folks don't care and strictly want the name and the coloration. More power to them :>)

[dzeadow]

Yeah, I find it very hard to even think of ordering a fish like this from let's say saltwaterfish.com where you have to spend $150 before you can even buy a $100 fish, and not be able to see it. I'd be really PO'd if I got something that was malformed or not really visually stunning after spending $250, basically, to get a fish with a name.

[Jovreefer]

I dont think your going to see any drastic drop in prices any time soon. Rods clowns are cheaper in part due to the fact that he says 90% of his clowns will become onyx. ORA says only 1% or less come out picasso. Bonesreef said he's getting about 30% picasso's from his spawns.

So if you look at the numbers that way rod can sell all of his offspring at $50-75 (or lower for younger clowns) Lets just say he sells all 100 clowns at the $50 price. Thats $5k profit!

Lets say ORA has 100 clowns too, they can only sell 1 at picasso prices & the rest will be "regular" percs at around $25 retail. Thats $2.5K profit, half of rods.

So... whats my point? It will be a LONG time before enough picasso's are breeding true to catch up to the demand on these little fish, Rod has plenty of onyx popping out twice a month for everyone.

Plus on top of ALL of that, you've got the pattern issue with picasso's, certian ones are always going to draw more money due to the amazing pattern.

Ok... I'll stop rambling.

[Slakker]

Originally posted by Jovreefer
Lets say ORA has 100 clowns too, they can only sell 1 at picasso prices & the rest will be "regular" percs at around $25 retail. Thats $2.5K profit, half of rods.

Yeah, but ORA is a much larger operation than Rod has...MUCH larger...so that pretty much makes your point ridiculous.

Prices are high for picassos because that's what people are willing to pay for them, not because they're inherently worth more. If people stopped paying the prices, they would drop.

[GSMguy]

Originally posted by Slakker
Yeah, but ORA is a much larger operation than Rod has...MUCH larger...so that pretty much makes your point ridiculous.

Prices are high for picassos because that's what people are willing to pay for them, not because they're inherently worth more. If people stopped paying the prices, they would drop.

Yes but rods fish turn out better with less screwed up gills and faces so for all their giant operations ORA still lets some horribly defective fish out of their facility, If people stop paying the prices breeders wont bother and the supply will dry up.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by GSMguy
Yes but rods fish turn out better with less screwed up gills and faces....

It is called culling. Every batch has some fish that should never enter the market. Some folks cull better then others.

Gets difficult to cull, when you are striving for misbars, unusual shapes, etc. There is a market for such specimens, I am just not sure how large that market is and can't speak to it since I am not in that market; buyer or seller.

[Jovreefer]

Originally posted by Slakker
Yeah, but ORA is a much larger operation than Rod has...MUCH larger...so that pretty much makes your point ridiculous.

ORA has 1 pair of breeding picasso's ... rod has 1 breeding pair of onyx ... size of their operation makes absolutly no point when both breeders have 1 pair.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by Jovreefer
ORA has 1 pair of breeding picasso's ... rod has 1 breeding pair of onyx ... size of their operation makes absolutly no point when both breeders have 1 pair.

ORA's buyer base is so much larger then Rods, operational size and demand makes a difference. They have a pipeline for multiple grades of clowns in place.

It is assumptive to presume ORA only has a single pair producing picasso-like markings. Rumor has it picasso-like marking have appeared from typical clowns. Maybe ORA has a few of typical clowns at the operation producing all sorts of things. Anyone know for sure where the stripeless line originated? How about the stubby clowns? etc., etc., etc.

Bottomline: Operational size matters in more ways then folks take for granted. It can be both a strength and a weakness, give both operations their due.

[EMBRYOGUY]

jov you are wrong. ora has ALOT more than 1 breeding pair of picassos........lol......they are not where they are at bec they do not plan ahead and take precautions....and so will rodonyx in his own way.

size of operation can definetly make a diff in the kind of care you give to meta babies. this stage of dev. can make a huge diff in the overall quality of clowns. there is absolutely no way ora can give the same care that someone like rod gives. but both have there benefit to the hobby. i love rods clowns and will always admire there dev./body. i also have alot of admiration for ora bec without there direction and drive, our love for clowns would not be where it is today.

but this is why rodonyx clowns by far have the best bodies. most novice clown collectors focus primarly on pattern and often overlook gill deformities/sunken stomachs/overbights. that are often present in larger operations. its just not possible for large operations to cull as effectively as a breeder like rod can.

if i had to buy one clown at any price. it would be rods. his clowns have the most reliable dev.

if rod charged 200 for a clownfish i still think they would command the same attention. and if i had to keep only 1 pair of clowns, it still would be rods, at any price.

i find it interesting that rarely on this forum, anyone talks about the quality of a clownfish s body. most collectors focus on pattern but how often do you hear of rods clowns dying suddenly? again, his clowns have proven/reliable dev. i would much rather pay for this than simply for the pattern. of unproven lineage and dev.

slakker i agree. value is what a person deems

the price of clowns will drop, just as any coral./etc. its the nature of the hobby.

[Jovreefer]

Last I herd was ORA only had 1 pair breeding & several "paired" in hopes of breeding (but again I have not been up on things this year due to wedding planning) So they could be breeding now. Just like I know rod had a few pairs he is hoping to breed to.. again I have not herd that they started breeding yet.

I still dont see how operation size has anything to do with price though. I do see how quality of clowns are much better on a smaller breeder.. but would that not bump price of smaller breeders clowns up, not oposite.

& I'm sorry embryo, but stubby bodies bred from 2 siblings is not a superior quality IMO. Its a defect from brother & sister breeding. Please dont get me wrong, I love Rods clowns & I think they are some of the best clowns out there & would reccomend them to anyone looking for onyx. Just the statement that subby bodies are superior is not a fact. Now the health of the clowns & the great care taken to raise these clowns does certianly give them a boost in their lives and make them superior to any wild caught clown in captivity or any mass produced clown.

now I'm gonna back out of the thread, to many topics are on here that are not part of the "price of picasso's" & we'll all just have to agree to disagree here.