Help with Copper in Reef tank

[AuroraDave]

I just received confirmation that our aquifer, and therefore my well, has some level of contamination. It is early, so I don't have complete info or final test results, but the IL EPA, my County, Dept of Agriculture and others are involved.

We do not know how long copper has been present, however I have a RO for top-off, so only very low levels of copper have probably been going into my reef. According to my research the RO should filter 95+% out, however that depends on the age of the filters/membranes.

I have about 450 gallons of volume and I dose 2-3 gallons of water per day top-off. My initial theory is that maybe very low levels over time have built-up in my closed system. Copper binds to substrate, rock, detritus, etc.

Right now my primary questions are if I can truly remove copper from an existing system, how to do it and how effective it may be. My well is testing positive for copper at levels > .25 mg/l that my test kit measures. The county's initial tests came back and the highest well test was .367 mg/l. Not high enough to kill me, but we can't drink the water. My tank is testing between .20 - .25 mg/l and the kit suggests .15 mg/l as the level for parasitic control.

Will carbon remove Copper? Do I have to throw away my rock or is that an old wives tale? I’ve found a lot on the web, but not much related to fish tanks…mainly ponds. Copper is difficult to remove due to its binding properties. I also thought I had heard that copper is unstable in salt water and you need to keep adding when treating fish. Is that also a wives tale or is it the constant addition in my system that is causing my problem?

Any knowledge would be helpful. TIA
Dave

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If the kit is accurate, then you have way too much at 200 ppb. Do you have any inverts in the tank now? Crabs or snails?

To remove copper from the water itself you can use a poly-filter or Cuprisorb, but that will leave solid deposits untouched:

http://www.seachem.com/products/prod...CupriSorb.html

[AuroraDave]

I'm going to try another brand test kit to confirm the range, but yes, I am also concerned at this level.

I don't have many inverts left. My shrimp have been disappearing one by one and only my coral banded remains. He's old and large & I hope he makes it. Both of my serpent starfish are alive...are they normally affected?

Thanks for the product suggestion. Based on my water volume, I am going to need a lot. The $50 bag should bring be down 12 ppm.

What is your experience with rock? It sounds like the live rock may leach copper unless continually treated.
Thanks
Dave

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by AuroraDave
I'm going to try another brand test kit to confirm the range, but yes, I am also concerned at this level.

I don't have many inverts left. My shrimp have been disappearing one by one and only my coral banded remains. He's old and large & I hope he makes it. Both of my serpent starfish are alive...are they normally affected?

Thanks for the product suggestion. Based on my water volume, I am going to need a lot. The $50 bag should bring be down 12 ppm.

What is your experience with rock? It sounds like the live rock may leach copper unless continually treated.
Thanks
Dave

can you qt the coral banded shrimp and the stars because chances are good they will perish?

I am sorry for your loss and not trying to be pessimistic here but it is worth knowing here:

Correct me if I am wrong but if the levels of copper are true in that tank---isn't the existing live rock now unusable.

[AuroraDave]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
I am sorry for your loss and not trying to be pessimistic here but it is worth knowing here:

Correct me if I am wrong but if the levels of copper are true in that tank---isn't the existing live rock now unusable.

I don't know. That was one of the main reasons I posted. I am trying to find out if the live rock is OK or will always leach copper. I remember hearing that years ago, but I understand that not everything you hear is accurate.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by AuroraDave
I don't know. That was one of the main reasons I posted. I am trying to find out if the live rock is OK or will always leach copper. I remember hearing that years ago, but I understand that not everything you hear is accurate.

glad you are taking it in the spirit and intention I posted it---I have a feeling it is true and I feel for you if it is

[bertoni]

Live rock can adsorb copper and potentially release it at a later time, possibly due to a low pH event, for example. I'd pitch the live rock, but it can be given an acid dip.

[Saboral]

I have actually recently found I had the same problem. After alot of research I have been told multiple times that Cuprisorb is the best option. Once your water is free of the copper my understanding is that it will continue to leech from the substrate over time. If you leave the cuprisorb in your tank permanently it is supposed to remove all copper over time. In your case I would recommend keeping it as a constant filter media from this point forward. I will be doing the same in my tank as soon as it arrives. I have not had problems keeping inverts as I have a deresa clam and a serpent star, neither of which show any signs of ill. However, I do seem to have trouble with coral growth and I feel that this could be one of the primary issues.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that it is possible that the rock may be "permanently" damaged.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
I agree that it is possible that the rock may be "permanently" damaged.

thanks Randy and Jonathan---I knew this but did't want to be the sole bearer of bad news--plus you guys are beyond expertise and experience.

but it bears repeating----check out those copper levels with different test kit or get a second opionion first before doing something drastic

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that folks should not panic. In the worst cases, crabs and shrimp die within 24 h. This appears to not be that bad, perhaps.

There are quite a few threads in this forum on cleaning equipment and tanks (which can work fine), and even cleaning live rock with acid (makes it dead rock, but may dissolve the copper; how effective this is is not known, IMO). I usually recommend dumping sand if contaminated.

[AuroraDave]

Thanks for all the insight and ideas.
I was afraid that the copper may have bound to my rock. I'm going to try CupriSorb initially and see where that takes me.

I'll learn a lot by measuring the copper before, during and after treatment; and if I see decreases, then I can plan a course from there.

The McHenry County Health Dept spoke at our HOA mtg last night and they won't have the SOC test results back for up to 3 more weeks. I really can't take long-term corrective measures until I know the full scope of the problem and whether there are other issues to deal with.

Dave

[AuroraDave]

I am going to buy another copper test kit.
Can anyone recommend a brand?

Most of my kits are Salifert, any experiences?

[A.T.T.R]

run cupisorb for the rest of the life of the tank ( or atleast a yeaR)
it is rechargable using muriatic acid

ihad some one poisen a tank at work.
we threw cupisorb init and recharged it every time it turned blue ( took longer and longer till now its been sitting in there for about 6 months with 0 color change)

[capn_hylinur]

Even then I don't think there is any quarantee by the porosity chacteristics of the rock that sometime in the future some more of it will be released.
There are reefers that after a year start having phophates and nitrate problmes due to leaching from the live rock.
IMO I'm the kind that would always be worrying about that live rock if I didn't change it.

I have always stated that the live rock and sand bed form the basis of your filtration system. You should not cut corners with that--buy good quality live rock and a good argonite sand.

[capn_hylinur]

question here--does a good r/0 water filter remove copper?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A good RO will remove 95+% of copper. That is often but not always enough. RO/DI removes all of it.