Pump Overkill?

[trr8288]

Would an Eheim 1250 be overkill for a 55 gallon tank with 20 gallon sump with probably a head of about 4 feet.? or should i go with the Eheim 1048 or some other pump?

[papagimp]

humor me for a minute, how many Gallons per hour do each of those pumps run?

Also, any idea's of the type of reef tank you are going to aim for? Mainly Sps, Lps, Softies, ? What's overkill for one person may not be enough flow for another.

[EdKruzel]

On a 55 with 4' head, I'd go with a larger pump, at least the 1260.
With the 1250 @ 4', the gph is around 175.

[trr8288]

Well as soon as it gets set up I'll probbaly do softies and eventually do some Sps but initally it will be a FOWLR. but The 1250 has 350gph and 6.5 ft max head and the 1048 has 160gph and 5 ft max head. I was just wondering if 350 would be too much or even if 160 is too much or too little. I just want a good pump so I'm not out money so I'm even opne for suggestions my heart isnt set on these.

[papagimp]

Well, on my 55g with a DIY 10g sump, i run a mag3, around 300gph. That's the minimal i'd run but i also utilize my sump as a refugium. for a fowlr, not sure how much difference it would make but i'd probably not bother with 160gph on a 55g. Seems awfully low for any type of return setup on a tank that size.

[trr8288]

Well I'm new to this whole thing and don't know what is good what is bad and I know what equipment I need just don't know details such as how powerful of a return pump .

[papagimp]

No biggie, we all started out the same way

Since you are planning on at least having softies at some point, I'd adivse getting an appripriate pump now, you could use the lower one but would most likely have to upgrade it later on once you start dealing in corals. ON a 55g tank, around 300-500gph return seems reasonable to me. I've not had much luck going higher and definatly had worse luck with lower flows. I'd also recommend looking into converting that 20g sump into a refugium before you get too involved with the tank and avoid having to tear anything down to do this later. A refugium can make a world of difference in keeping water quality better (by growing and harvesting macro algae in the fuge, which also seconds as a food source for certain fish, if the right macro is grown) as well as giving pods a place to breed and flourish without being eaten. This basically will give "free food' to the fish, not enough to support the tank but an occasional live food chase is good for em.

We could speak all day about flow but the thing you should take from all this is that a FOWLR tank can get away with alot lower flow than a coral filled reef tank. It can get away with alot of things that a reef cannot, so if you plan on a reef eventually, I'd plan on setting the tank up for that scenario versus having to do alot of upgrades and equpiment replacment later on. Save you a little in the long run. Now for stuff like powerheads (for more flow) can be added after the fact, but since we're dealing with just the sump and return, may as well get it right the first time. opinions on this will vary just as they will for so many other aspects of this hobby, alot of the time youjust have to wade through all the various options presented to you and find one that fits your budget and time available with the tank. With saltwater tanks, their is definatly more than one way to skin the cat.

[papagimp]

geeze that was a mouthful, sorry bout that., LOL

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by papagimp
geeze that was a mouthful, sorry bout that., LOL

Don't confuse internal tank flow with overall circulation

Papagimp is correct( when is he not) with a overall circulation of 5-10 times. the reason for this is you want to match the flow rate with your skimmer etc it has time to properly filter the water--otherwise unfiltered water is being returned.

In the tank is a different story--through use of power heads aim for flow rates of about 20 times the tank volume for lps corals and 40 or better for sps corals.
this is not hard to do--in my tank I have three hydor koralinas--each with 1250 gph flow.

[EdKruzel]

More important than the amount of internal current is having it alternate. If you place even the strongest powerhead in the tank and leave it to push water in one constant direction the outcome of the current will be like a river with down current areas as detritus traps. If you place your pumps on timers or wavemakers, the pumps alternate and change the current throughout, keeping detritus from accumulating anywhere.

[trr8288]

Wow thanks for all the information I didnt realize how much there was to a pump. I'm going to have to keep asking questions but thank you for everything. But i wnat to put a refugium in the sump bu t what kind of macroalgae would I put in it?

[EdKruzel]

There are numerous types that work well in a fuge, but Cheato is probably the most popular.

Look at the macroalgae/marine plants forum here at RC for tons of information.

[MitchReef]

This is the same topic I am researching for my 75....might want to read up in the Lighting etc....thread...

Mitch

[papagimp]

Originally posted by trr8288
Wow thanks for all the information I didnt realize how much there was to a pump.

It's not that their's a whole lot to pumps and circulation, it's just that you came to a large group with a wide variety of opinions to share, lol. Ask anything here on rC and you'll get more than your fill of answers. Usually more than one correct answer at that. It does make it confusing at times but trust me when I say, you'll pick it all up alot quicker than you'd think. I've only been in the hobby a few years and already feel like a walking talking book (until i visit the advanced forums and then i get confused like a newbie all over again)

[AZDesertRat]

Remember the pumps GPH rating is at 0 feet of head! A 1250 at 4 or 5 feet is going to be less than 100 GPH if its maximum or shutoff head is only 6.5 feet. That means it is just moving water at 6.5 feet, trickling. You also need to consider head includes any fitting, valves restrictions, sponge filters etc. so the 4 feet you are quoting often ends up being more like 6 feet once you add a couple of elbows, pipe, a ball valve, barbed nipples etc.

I can give you an example using a 1260 I recently tested.
I did some extensive testing and here are my results using a Kill A Watt meter, 10 psi pressure gauge, ball valve, 1 inch water meter and 1" plumbing on the discharge.
Open discharge - 782 GPH at 63 watts
1 psi (2.3') - 492 GPH @ 60 watts
2 psi (4.6') - 433 GPH @ 54 watts
3 psi (7') - 356 GPH @ 50 watts
3.5 psi ( 8') - 300 GPH @ 46 watts
4 psi (9.5') - 253 GPH @ 43 watts

Its rated at 635 GPH at 0 head and will pump to 12 feet at shutoff. So it did well at no head but the minute I started adding head it really dropped off and it a much larger pump than a 1250.

[trr8288]

So would a 1260 work or should I go even bigger than that?

[capn_hylinur]

I think the enhiems can be throlled down too--if I am not mistaken.
Like azdesertrat said----I have a mag3600 that has about 7 feet of head pressure--with a t-to divert water to the refug, two valves, 1 inch going to 3/3 inch bulkhead etc I am lucky to be getting close to half that.
That mag3600 goes through 360 watts per hr---way too much and you can't throttle it down.
--bottom line ---I would go with a pump that has a high gph, low wattage and ability to throttle down.

[capn_hylinur]

if that doesn't make sense:
(the whole point is to be able to have enough flow through out but be able to throttle down the flow through the skimmer--or to match its gph--otherwise unfiltered water is being returned to the tank.
throttling it down will also bring down is energy consumption

[trr8288]

So the Eheim would be a good pump to purchase

[AZDesertRat]

I would say Ocean Runner or Eheim in that order. Ocean Runners are slightly more efficient, generate about the same amout of heat or less and cost less than half as much. Either is a good choice though as the differences are minimal when compared to other pumps.

[capn_hylinur]

Originally posted by AZDesertRat
I would say Ocean Runner or Eheim in that order. Ocean Runners are slightly more efficient, generate about the same amout of heat or less and cost less than half as much. Either is a good choice though as the differences are minimal when compared to other pumps.

can you throttle both of those down?

[AZDesertRat]

You can throttle any centrifugal pump down as long as it is done on the discharge side. In some pumps it actually makes them more efficient when you do so. It works well if you slightly oversize the pump (within reason as pumps that are way too large will create more heat due to energy losses in the windings) then valve it slightly, the watts consumed actually drops contrary to what some might think. A centrifugal pump only consumes as much power as is required to do the work at hand plus a little for inherent losses which happens with all pumps. Notice as you add head, the gallonage goes down as does the power consumed.