how do u slow down your water befor basement sump??show me

customcolor · #1 10/14/2007, 06:39 PM

i am having problems with micro bubbles in my 125 that is 4 weeks old now and the pipes are slimed up. sump is in the basement 10' from the tank. i have 2 1" bulk heads going to 1 1.25"pipe with 45's then down to a barb fitting to go to a 1.25"i.d. clear hose down to the basement to another barb fitting. after the barb it goes back to 1.25" pvc to the sump. in the sump i made a loop for it to slowdown with 2"pvc and still i get a fast stream of water mixed with tons of bubbles. i have a 100 gal sump and use the bulk head that is in the sump for the return. i have ruffly 800gph going down to the sump.

please show me your basement sumps and how you stoped the micro bubbles or how you slowed the speed of the water. i realy dont want to use a filter sock unless i realy have to.

please show me other options!!!

shyland83 · #2 10/14/2007, 07:10 PM

I haven't tried this, and actually just thought of it when i read your question. but i'm sure plumbing in a trap like under a sink would slow the water down and filter out some of the bubbles. there may be some sort of fatal flaw in this, but sounds like a good idea to me.

customcolor · #3 10/14/2007, 07:15 PM

i did that in the sump and still i get the bubbles into the sump and i made my trap 18" tall.

customcolor · #4 10/14/2007, 07:22 PM

but it did help

TK3 · #5 10/15/2007, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by customcolor
but it did help

Try using a valve to slow down the water flow?

IPT · #6 10/15/2007, 02:42 AM

No experience here. 800 GPH seems like a ton of flow for a sump. Anyway, maybe have it hit a "T" or "Y" and then a couple more "T"s so you in effect disperse the flow to maybe 4 or eight outputs? Just came to my mind. Don't know if it'll work. I was thinking about a valve too. Better yet, maybe just one "T" to an output with a valve to tune it to be just water. The the other output would just be residual backflow?

kgross · #7 10/15/2007, 03:03 AM

Do you have any bubble traps in your sump? From what it sounds like you have a rubbermaid watering trough for something like that as your sump with no baffles in it. If that is the case for a bubble trap use a 5 gallon bucket for the water to drain into and then have it overflow into the main sump. If you are still getting bubbles though this, add a small rubbermaid tote to put the bucket into. So then the water flows into the bucket overflows in the tote and then overflows from the tote into the sump.

Kim

BeanAnimal · #8 10/15/2007, 08:08 AM

You may want to rethink the overflow side. (3) standpipes instead of two. 1 of them at full siphon, regulated by a ball valve. The 2nd will take up the slack and the 3rd will be for emergency. They should all (3) directly feed the sump instead of merging into a single pipe.

The idea is that the siphon standpipe takes the bulk of the flow and just a small portion trickles down the 2nd pipe. This way very little (if any) air is introduced into the sump.

Other options:

You are not going to "slow" the flow down without greatly increaseing the pipe diameter. It is a simple volume and pressure thing. If you try to valve it down, you will increase the pressure (as the volume will not change). The increase in pressure is an increase in velocity. Your trap should be at least 2 or 3 pipe sizes bigger and open top to vent the air, or you need to build a fairly decent size bubble trap above the sump.

As Kim mentioned you can use 5 gallon buckects or something similar.

John_Auberry · #9 10/15/2007, 08:23 AM

when I had a tank set up like this I put the end of the pipe in a bucket. The water came down the pipe and most of the bubble came out of the water befor it overflowed the bucket.

hebygb · #10 10/15/2007, 10:29 AM

All great ideas... I am thinking that a drum trap would slow things down nicely prior to the sump. are you flowing into a sock? Depending on what sock you use may reduce bubble significantly...

"Umm, fish?" · #11 10/15/2007, 10:57 AM

I've torn it down now for a house remodel, but I run the overflow through a couple of macroalgae tanks. Heck, it's a basement, spread out a little!

stugray · #12 10/15/2007, 12:57 PM

I have a similar setup.

I have dual megaflows that go to the basement through separate 1" flex PVC.
When they reach the sump, one splits and dumps water into separate chambers ( sump & fuge ). The other 1" flex goes directly to my 5 gallon recirc skimmer then dumps into the fuge.

In the two sump chambers I have a lot of macro algae ( cheato in the sump & caulerpa in the fuge ), these cut down on most of the bubbles. The high flow area ( sump ) has a large bubble trap with three baffles just before the return chamber before the seq. barracuda.

With the combo of the skimmer & the macro algae in get almost no bubbles back upstairs unless the top-off falls behind and the return chamber gets too low.

Pics of everything in my gallery.

Stu

cannarella · #13 10/15/2007, 01:02 PM

Tagging along. I am in the same boat.

customcolor · #14 10/15/2007, 05:42 PM

well i cant change the 2 1" to a 1.25" do to i only have 5" of room to get under and behind the tank. i can change the 1.25" at the union i put in 10" below where the 1" meet. i also can change the standpipes alittle. i cant add one but i can turn one of the 90's up ensted of down, will that work? and yes i do have the rubbermaid sump. and i did try the bucket and the flow was like to much,or the bublbes.
i was wondering if i could use these bubbles to good use and make a diy inline skimmer and a bubble defuser and another power head doing a recerculating action? any thoughts on that?

BeanAnimal · #15 10/15/2007, 06:25 PM

The (3) standpipes would be the ideal setup. You could dial the system in so that there is very little air.

Did you try to fill the bucket with LR?

kgross · #16 10/15/2007, 06:33 PM

If the bucket did not work to cause the bubbles to flow out of the water before it went over the top of the bucket, you might need something larger, or fill it full of LR like Bean suggested. Can and also put a cover over the intake to the pump that forces it to only get the water from the bottom of the sump, which will reduce the bubbles. Put a plastic bowl upside down over the intake and see if that helps to stop some of the bubbles.

kim

cannarella · #17 10/15/2007, 06:41 PM

Anyone have a pic of the bucket method?

customcolor · #18 10/15/2007, 06:48 PM

the bubbles went with the water and yes i had it full of rock. i had the pipe go almost to the botom of the bucket. and on a rubermaid sump the buld head is at the bottom of the tank already.

kgross · #19 10/15/2007, 06:54 PM

We know the bulkhead is in the bottom of the sump. What you need to do is force the bubbles to the top of the water and keep them away from the bulkhead at the bottom of the sump.

customcolor · #20 10/15/2007, 07:47 PM

i know i know. but the hard thing is that the micro bubbles move so easy, its hard to keep them at the top of the sump so they pop

kgross · #21 10/15/2007, 07:54 PM

To pop the bubbles, you need to force them to the top of the water (ie with bucket), and make it hard for the pump to get them, by forcing the pump to only pickup water from the very bottom of the sump (ie upsidedown bowl).

Kim

ivgonmad · #22 10/15/2007, 08:11 PM

try a sponge filter on the pump intake

sabalough · #23 10/16/2007, 12:17 AM

I have mine set up so the drain pipe is 6" under the water in the sump and I driled a small 1/4" hole in the pipe 1/2" above the water line this takes care of 90% of the bubles in mine. I flow +/- 850 gph through a 1.5 drain.
I set up my sump in 3 parts (Laundry sinks) no bubles make it out of the 1st tub. The 1st tub contains a skimmer the main tank drain and the drain from the fuge/frag tank, as well as the pump into the frag tank. This 1st sump is 35-40 gal and has upward of 1500 gph of turbulance. 850 gph flows out of it via a overflow drain to the settiling sump wich then flows to a third tub and up to the tank. the third tub serves no purpous other then adding voulme to the system.

itZme · #24 10/16/2007, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
The (3) standpipes would be the ideal setup. You could dial the system in so that there is very little air.

Did you try to fill the bucket with LR?

Bean,
I have a 92g corner upstairs and a pair of 75g's in-wall in the basement. I also have a 140g refugium, 100g frag tub and a couple of 55g drums I use for sumps (skimmers, media reactors etc... all in them)

I use the method you recommend except I only have 2 drains. I use one as a complete siphon and the second is empty and is about 4 inches higher than the first as an emergency only.

I have about 700gph going into the 92g and since I am paying to pump the water upstairs I figured why not use the energy on the way down? I plumbed the drain into a tee and ran one line to each tank through 1/2" SeaSwirls. I get nice flow out of them to help break up the laminar flow of the penductors in the 2 basement displays.

I have one recommendation for the 3 drain setup you suggest. If you use a gate valve instead of a ball valve you will have much finer control over the siphon drain. I get a few turns of adjustment instead of only 1/4 turn. I also have the 2 displays in the basment plumbed the same way. Not one bubble enters the system and I never have salt creep because there aren't any bubbles popping.
You can also run about 1200gph through a 1" drain at full siphon so that helps if you are plumbing a bigger system.

Hope that helps

customcolor · #25 10/16/2007, 01:13 AM

i am trying something tonight. i will see tomm if it is working. and yes it has to do with a 5 gal salt bucket. so far tonight i only see some fine bubbles in the sump only on one side(the side farthes away from the pump.) and yes they are flowing strait up

i will post more as i know it. i hope this works cuz this is the 3rd time i redid the plumming in the sump