Starting a 50 gallon reef (brand new to the hobby)

[NickSmi]

I have done cichlid tanks for about 4 years now. I am brand new to salt but have been lurking these forums for about 3 weeks now reading everything I can.

First off, the tank I'm using has a bit of an unconventional footprint for its capacity. I would describe it as a 50 wide. It is about 12-14 inch's tall, 4 feet long and I cant remember exactly how wide.

Here are some question's I had pertaining to my new reef build.

#1. From what I gathered, with this unconventional footprint that makes the tank rather short, I don't require as powerful a lighting as I would with a taller tank. Based upon this assumption and the fact that I am a poor college student, I have picked out these lights. Is this at least a decent choice? I plan to keep some simple beginner corals.

#2. In regards to cycling my tank. How should I go about it? I was planning on using the method in which you sprinkle flake food to build up ammonia and the corresponding bacteria colony to get rid of it. Since I plan on having live rock, should I use it to cycle my tank? If so, how much should I initially add?

#3. Flow. From what I read it never became clear to me whether or not I needed power heads, and if I did, which type? I am also confused as to how to arrange the power heads. What should they be pointing at?

#4. Deep sand bed. How deep is deep for my tank, 3-4 inch's? What sort of critters should I get to ensure I don't have un-wanted particle build up?

#5. I don't have the means or space currently to do a sump, I very possibly will in the future, but for now, could I rely on a simple HOB filter, or possibly just on the deep sand bed live rock bio filtration combo?

Anyway, I think that covers pretty much all my questions for now.

Sorry about all these most likely simple questions. I'm just a beginner trying to get my feet wet. Well, wet with saltwater...Whatever, you know what I mean

[MegsB]

im no expert but from my readings (which have been plenty, and personal experience)

for fish only those lights are fine, but for a reef 3-4 watts per gallon is the suggested minimum from my readings, i would try to go for a 4X65W on that tank, though you might get away with zoas and mushrooms with that lighting.

1-2 lbs/gallon of live rock, so i would try for at least 50, and add it all at once if possible to let cycle, flake food or a grocery store shrimp to cycle the tank is the newer preferred method (old days it was sacrificing a fish)

powerheads yes! 10X per hour turnover rate, and koralias are an awesome bang for your buck, i highly recommend them, in that tank i would probably run 2 # 3's (or 3-4 #2's) generally you put them on the ends of the tank, and position them however you like to get the most flow.

sand bed depth is dependant on personal preference, i have a 3" in my 33 and 65.

skimmers are also personal preference, but after seeing what they pull out i wouldn't run a tank without one, i have a skimmer (no room for sump either) so its an HOB, i got a Aqua-C Remora, love it ($200) i wouldn't skimp on that to much (started off with a crappy skimmer, so that was $125 wasted)

[NickSmi]

Thanks for your help!

I'm still confused about the lighting though, I read somewhere that the actual output of those types of bulbs is 2-3 times more than its actually listed. Did I misread something?

[wooden_reefer]

In general, a deep sand bed should not be the substrate of a reef tank. The dsb should be away from food and fecal particles and other protein waste.

[NickSmi]

Is that a suggestion to go bare bottom, or just to have a shallow sand bed.

I understand there are two clear cut opinions to the DSB debate?

[NickSmi]

I'm sorry, there is no edit.

I would like to know whether that lighting would be sufficient for my situation as I want to get this tank up and cycling with its live rock ASAP.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally posted by NickSmi
Is that a suggestion to go bare bottom, or just to have a shallow sand bed.

I understand there are two clear cut opinions to the DSB debate?

I vote for a shallow sand bed.

You don't see many reef tanks with sand bed in the tank thicker than two inches. may be three at the most.

Only well-filtered water with low concentration of waste particulates should go to the dsb. IMO

[Saltwaterstart]

You won't need lighting right away, so you can put the live rock and sand in as soon as you want to with no negative effects.

Also, from what I've read, you can go to the grocery store and buy a small piece of cocktail shrimp for $0.25, and all you do is put it in your tank, and it will begin to cycle.

I would shop around for lights a little more, and get something a little more powerful, so you don't have to upgrade every time you want a new species of coral.

[Roger928]

Good reading here:

http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm

[vader88]

Originally posted by NickSmi
I'm sorry, there is no edit.

I would like to know whether that lighting would be sufficient for my situation as I want to get this tank up and cycling with its live rock ASAP.

Nick,

You should look into something more powerful, although you have a relatively short tank, mine is about the same height ( 29 cube ), I'm running 144 watt cube. I can have most softies, but my LPS choices are extremely limited and SPS are out of the question.

I don't know what would be best, but if need be save up some more money and add some more watts.

[NickSmi]

Well, the general consensus is to go for more powerful lighting. That is what I will do. I'm going to shop around, maybe buy a used fixture and buy new bulbs.

Onto the live rock. I am not quite sure what to look for, but what I'm planning to do, is take pictures of the live rock at my LFS and post them here

Do you guys have any trusted (cheap) online stores for live rock?
The fact I don't need lighting right away excites me

I will go with 1-2 inch's of sand, apparently DSB isn't as great an option as for some reason I was convinced it was.


oooo, one more thing. I have some base rock. When I get my live rock is it possible if I mix it with the live rock I will get a seeding effect and turn the base rock into live rock?

[Saltwaterstart]

For live rock quality, I would have to say Fiji is the way to go, but it is a lot more expensive than base rock. The only reason I say Fiji is because it is more porous and has more surface area than base rock (I think).

If you have base rock, and you buy live rock, it will only be a matter of time before your base rock becomes complete live rock. If you even need too, buy a little bit of Fiji live rock, and all the base rock you want, and just wait for the Fiji rock to turn the base rock into live rock. I am saying this because Fiji rock is the only rock available to me in my area, and it goes for $7.95/lb.

As for a DSB, if you are planning on a reef, it is good to have at least 3" of sand, because it will keep your nitrates down, and it will keep the water quality of the tank very good. Again, as wooden_reefer said, it's a matter of preference, and it is all what you want. If you are planning on a sump or refugium, I recommend that you put a DSB in there because it will look better in your tank and keep everything a little more clean.

Get everything in there when you have time, because you can't keep adding LR during your cycle or you will prolong the process.

Dump everything in the tank in one go, and it will be a lot faster.

[JamesJR]

If you are wanting to save money you can check out the DIY forum and make most of your rock yourself. I made most of my rock out of a mixture of portland cement and sand and used it as base rock. Then I bought about 10 lbs of the best rock I could find and put it in with the home made rock, kept the alkalinity, Ca and Mg up and within about 3 months it was all covered in coralline algae and sponges and you would never know it.

Flow, Flow, Flow. It is really hard to overdo. Try and go and find a Korallia pump or two while you still can. Great product, makes lots of current and is way cheaper than the tunze streams.

also, yes you can use hang on filters and stuff for your tank. One of the nicest tanks I have ever seen was a TOM here and he used hang on equipment.

good luck

[NickSmi]

Great news! I found some very cheap fiji (A little under 2$ a pound) live rock covered in coralline. I also have some leads on more powerful lighting.

How soon do you guys think I'm gonna need my protein skimmer? It looks like its gonna be expensive

[Saltwaterstart]

You shouldn't need a protein skimmer until you start buying corals.

Still, it might be a good idea to get one before so you can get some practice adjusting it.

[Chibils]

#1. Unfortunately, lights are probably one of your three most important investments for a reef tank (lights, skimmer, ro/di unit). PCs just wont cut it, imo, unless you want to keep exclusively softies. What kind of corals are you looking at? That'll help us pick out a good light setup for you to minimize cost.

#2. A lot of people cycle their tanks with LR, but most people take a piece of shrimp and toss it in the tank. It costs maybe $0.50.

#3. This comes down to what corals you plan to keep as well. Some corals like low flow, some like to be blasted. As far as powerheads go, Maxijets are cheap and relatively effective; if you mod them, they're great. Koralias disperse the flow really well, and the Tunze powerheads will blast across the tank in a straight stream. Those are the three I'd recommend; choose accordingly.

#4. 3-4" ought to be fine. For a 50G, I'd grab a few Mexican turbo snails or ~10 nassarius snails.

#5. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's very viable if you're willing to do religious water changes (25% every two weeks or 10% every week ought to be enough). A Tunze in-tank skimmer would do you well, as they're small and can be dropped in a sump when and if you upgrade.


If you're willing to be patient, grab a few pounds of live rock and seed some base rock with it. You might spend $50 on base rock and another $25 on live rock instead of $250 on straight live.



Edit (as per other posts here): Tonga and Fiji are the best LR choices imo. reserved for later

[NickSmi]

Thanks alot Chibils. I actually wouldn't mind the water changes as with my freshwater tank I'm used to minimum weakly 20% water changes.

Looks like I'm getting 50 pounds of fiji live rock and Ill try to seed 20 or so pounds of base rock. As for the lights, I found a good local deal for a 130watt fixture. I know this is not enough, but its extremely cheap and it would give me enough cash to buy another one. Due to the irregular footprint of my tank I could fit 2 fixtures, possibly. Anyway, I will just continue to hunt for good cost effective lighting.

[NickSmi]

Oh my gosh.

RO/DI units are expensive. Cant I just get 5 gallons of RO/DI water at my local Safeway for 35cents and use that? 10% water change right there

[MegsB]

you could wait on the skimmer until you start adding fish/corals (i did with my 2nd tank), same with the lights i believe.

i think many people choose to buy the water from the store instead of the RO/DI system (i personally use my well water and have had no problems)

[NickSmi]

Ok, Im currently waiting on my tank because its current inhabitant (Jack Dempsey ) still needs a new home.

[NickSmi]

Alright, I finally found some lights for a seemingly good price.

Are these lights a good choice for my 50 gallon? They are T5's with 216 watts.

Help, I need to answer the guy selling them to me ASAP.

[NickSmi]

Originally posted by NickSmi
Alright, I finally found some lights for a seemingly good price.

Are these lights a good choice for my 50 gallon? They are T5's with 216 watts.

Help, I need to answer the guy selling them to me ASAP.

Can you guys help me out with the lights?

Also I am cycling my tank using the cocktail shrimp method. Should I stick my live rock in their while its cycling also? They would only have like 20 watts of lights untill I get my T5's.

[Mavrk]

Yes, put the live rock in there.

[Saltwaterstart]

Definitely put the live rock in as fast as possible.

[Chef Reef]

the lights are great get em