Bluer bulb similar to the Reeflux 10k's?

ellisz · #1 08/14/2007, 08:48 PM

Hi all,

I have been running 250w Reeflux 10ks since April. I previously ran Reeflux 12ks. I liked the 12k but was looking for a little more par so I switched to the 10k's. My SPS and acros changed in an amazing way. I was not expecting such a drastic change but it was nice. Tips are more pronounced and I ended up with more blues in the tank.

My LPS and zoos looked washed out though. The zoos and LPS in my frag system under a 150w Phoenix 10k are a lot nicer.

I recently looked a tank with ushio 20k and really liked the looks of it. Sometimes I think my 180 with 3 250's is just too bright. I am running a 54w T5 03 and a blue+ along with a 55w PC 03 and a blue bulb as supplementation.

Any know if there is a way to get a bluer look without losing my new found acro colors? I thought of trying to add some more actinic but it will be rough to configure.

Any ideas?

ellisz · #2 08/15/2007, 04:47 PM

bump

RichConley · #3 08/15/2007, 05:02 PM

The problem is that the reeflux 10K has such a silly huge blue spike.

Its not a 10K either, its a 16K bulb.

ellisz · #4 08/15/2007, 05:22 PM

Then what is the Reeflux 12k? They are a lot bluer than the Reeflux 10k.

DarG · #5 08/15/2007, 07:25 PM

I dont think the DE version of the Reeflux 10000K is as blue as the near 16K of the SE. Atleast not on an HQI ballast. The shield takes some of the blue but I would like to see the spectral plot of the DE version. If I had to guess, mine looked like they were maybe in the 10000 or 11000K area. The SE version does have that large blue spike but also has some signifigant spikes in the green and orange.

The 12000K is definitely bluer. I like them but they dont have alot of par. Looked nice with a Fiji purple and a super actinic although maybe a little too blue for my tastes. But way too blue for me with a Blue +

You are using SE's?

ellisz · #6 08/15/2007, 08:25 PM

Yes I use SE bulbs with CV electronic ballasts. Before I went to the 10k's, I had the Reeflux 12k's with a 54w 03 actinic and a 54w blue+. I liked the look of the tank and never noticed how blue it was unless I compared to a 10k guys tank. Like I said above though, my acros are totally different now though. This I like but my other corals have suffered.

You think a XM 20k would be decent and I could supplement 10k if needed. The dusk effect after the MH's go out would be different. I could co a 10k and a 03 or blue+. I guess the best of both worlds is what we all want ....

I have used reeflux for years

gabe3d · #7 08/16/2007, 02:09 AM

I've had pretty much the exact same experience as you and looked for something to make my tank a little bluer and make my zoos pop a little more without sacrificing the new look from my SPS. I ended up keeping the Reeflux 10k and added T5 Blue Plus.

JCTewks · #8 08/16/2007, 03:29 AM

You'll really want a yellower bulb to keep the growth you are seeing up. IME light favoring the yellow end of the spectrum will give you better growth, while light at the blue end will give you better coloring.

RichConley · #9 08/16/2007, 09:26 AM

Actually guys, the 12K is significantly LESS blue than the 10K. The thing is, its also a whole lot less purple, green, red, and yellow. Its pretty much lower than the 10K in every segment of the spectrum.

Honestly, I'd be looking at a 10K bulb with a decent purple spike, and running a bunch of blue+ T5 bulbs. If you want "bluer", run a 20K with the blue+ bulbs. Just check Sanjay's site, and make sure that the bulb has a legitimate purple spike, or you'll end up with that Phonenix-y washed out blue look.

ellisz · #10 08/16/2007, 09:54 AM

I have not studied the plots as I don't know what I am looking at

I check them out and see if I can figure it out.

Mt T5's are the same height as my MH's - about 13" off the water. Would lowering the help? Would replacing the 03 actinic T5 with another Blue+ help that much more?

gabe3d · #11 08/16/2007, 10:27 AM

Mine are 7'' off the water and i have two Blue Plus and it looks like this (kinda purplish more than blueish)

ellisz · #12 08/16/2007, 10:39 AM

are you MH's that close too? My tank is more whiter than that. At least from the pic anyway ...

I thought of popping the rivets out of the retro and dropping the suppliment bulbs down closer to the water. Seems like a lot of work though and don't know if it will work ...

gabe3d · #13 08/16/2007, 10:45 AM

MH are at 9'', I forgot to mention that I do overdrive my T5s. I also have one of those newer Tek2 reflectors, if you want to know.

Here is a pic with no supplements only MH for reference, kinda very white.

gcarroll · #14 08/16/2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley
you'll end up with that Phonenix-y washed out blue look.

Why do you guys keep saying that the Phoenix has a washed out blue look? Just wondering because I have been running them for a long time and I've loved the colors that they gave my corals. I changed some of my bulbs to run SE w/ different bulbs and I still can't figure out what you guys are talking about.

PSam · #15 08/16/2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gcarroll
Why do you guys keep saying that the Phoenix has a washed out blue look? Just wondering because I have been running them for a long time and I've loved the colors that they gave my corals. I changed some of my bulbs to run SE w/ different bulbs and I still can't figure out what you guys are talking about.

Some lps look, I don't even know, colorful, but at the same time greyish and dull, if that makes sense. Washed out may be appropriate term. Some acro really have great color, but other acro, and some zoas / lps just look like crap under the phoenix, imo. Colorful, as in there are colors, but just dull.

gcarroll · #16 08/16/2007, 11:04 AM

Strange, but I have not seen this phenomenon! This leads me to reject that it is a problem with the bulb's spectral output. Got any examples of SPS that show this washed out look?

GSMguy · #17 08/16/2007, 11:08 AM

Gcarroll i know my colors are much duller on some of my sps since swithching from ushio 20k

the ushio 20ks had much more red green and purple.

did you run the pheonix on eballasts?

gcarroll · #18 08/16/2007, 11:18 AM

I've used them with both. I just switched to eballast on this last bulb change. I ran the last three bulb changed with 250 watt HQI M80.

gcarroll · #19 08/16/2007, 11:20 AM

I also tested one of the first sets of the new Ushio 20K bulbs in the US for Ushio.

GSMguy · #20 08/16/2007, 11:26 AM

i know i pmd you when i was thinking about the ushios a few months ago.

ellisz · #21 08/16/2007, 11:29 AM

I run a 150 Phoenix on a magnetic ballast for my frag tank. Colors there are decent but acros look better under the reeflux.

gcarroll · #22 08/16/2007, 11:44 AM

My feeling is that the Ushio can make brown corals look colorful. I say this because when I changed back to the Phoenix, I was shocked at how brown the tank was. It took 3-4 months for the corals to get back the true color that was brought out by the phoenix.

GSMguy · #23 08/16/2007, 11:55 AM

well i can say they are starting to get better and better yet i have wild colonys that were brown under ushio turning blue and green, so i would say im happy with the pheonix but they have very little in the gren spectrum the ushio is like a trick bulb makes greens pop and sizzle.

DarG · #24 08/16/2007, 11:58 AM

What any particular lighting looks like to one person can be extremely different compared to how another person perceives the same color.

One person seeing a tank lighting as white with a slight blue tint may be described as very blue by somebody else. Or it may even be described as having a yellowish tint by another person.
One persons blue is another persons white. One persons crisp white is another persons yellow tint. And most everyone knows that the ballast can make a difference in the color as well which makes it even more variable.

I found the 250 watt Phoenix 14000K's to be very very blue on ARO electronic ballasts. It was a very monotone blue to my eye for lack of a better word. Immediately I understood what some meant when they described the look as blue toilet water.
Others would describe this same look as white with a blue tint.

Given the above, I think it's amusing how territorial "we" can get about our tanks lighting. People defend their bulbs color like they are their pets.
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Ellisz ... Regarding the distance of the bulbs to the water. The T5's do have more of an impact on the color when they are closer to the water. Both the overall color of the tank and their effect on the corals. Obviously they are much more effective from the standpoint of providing par too.
I built my lighting rack so that my halide bulbs could be as much as 6 1/2" or 7" higher from the water than my T5's. The height of the entire rack is adjustable as well as the halides being adjustable individually. If possible, I would lower the T5's if I were you. 13" is way too high. You will have more impact on both coloration and par from the T5's if they were lower.
Optimally, they really should be at about 4" give or take an inch.
They can be a little bit higher if they are just supplementing coloration but 13" is way up there. IMO anyway.

shelburn61 · #25 08/16/2007, 12:08 PM

IMO most bulbs wash out some colors. You just have to pick the best to your own eye. I ran the aquaconnect 14k (SE version of phx) and did find it washes out some colors. Same deal with the XM 20k. Greens look good, but you lose yellows among others. The XM 10k has a different washout effect and I settled on the Reeflux 10k as the best option.

I run 190w actinic and would like more blue. Would T5 blue be a better option?