LFS Moron!

[tenwhiteduke]

After Purchasing my new AP24 Saturday, and setting it up as to my LFS directions, I have found that my salt levels were way over board. WAY OVER, I have changed out atleat 8 gallons so far, and still its over. He aslo didnt tell me to buy a hydrometer, which i now have one. So I guess I will continue to change out water tonight some more, and have to start over with my cycle.

[widefx]

hydrometer are not the most accurate way of checking your SG. Make sure there are no airbubbles on the float or it may give you a high reading. When I had one I would flick the hydrometer until all the bubble came off and the reading would be better.

[papagimp]

You don't have to start over with your cycle, just get the SG adjusted and let it continue the current cycle. When you are changing out the water you are taking saltwater out and adding straight RO/DI water back right? Not adding lower SG saltwater are ya? Just checking.

And finally , fwiw, don't listen to the LFS advice on setting anything up, look at their tanks as compared to the nice display you see in peoples homes. Their is a reason hobbyist tanks look much better than most store tanks. You can defintaly listen to what they have to say, and then come here and double check the advice with experienced hobbyists. You'll find alot of LFS emplyees are not fish/invert savy.

[crhis]

well the lfs may not be the only moron involved ........
relying solely on the advice of a lfs employee for your initial (and critical ) setup seems a little lame.
sounds like a little more homework may be in order.....
granted swing arm hydrometers aren't the most accurate .....but they're 100% more accurate than guessing .

[Fermat]

Originally posted by crhis
well the lfs may not be the only moron involved ........
relying solely on the advice of a lfs employee for your initial (and critical ) setup seems a little lame.
sounds like a little more homework may be in order.....
granted swing arm hydrometers aren't the most accurate .....but they're 100% more accurate than guessing .

Naturally there is always more homework! But a good part of learning about this hobby is in learning all that is involved with it, and I'm sure this person as well as myself are not the only ones here to dive in without having a real clue what it completely entailed. Calling him lame is quite out of line.

The absolute best thing for them was to register here at reef central and start reading and posting. It's a great source of guidance. Go into it being completely honest about everything you do; do not hold back to avoid appearing stupid or silly. There are a number of threads where people have posted about the worst mistakes they have made, and quite a few of the vets started off with some woppers.

LFS is the logical starting point for most people, not the internet, and it seems reasonable to ask and trust lfs people. In truth, I know a couple of lfs workers who are indeed quite knowledgable, usually the stores that cater to reef keepers, and even then just the managers or store owners.

And... I'm still trying to get my tank to look better than the store tanks!

[crhis]

my post was not intended to call Tenwhiteduke lame.....
calling the lfs employee a moron is (kind of like the pot calling the kettle black) though .....
but in my experiences as well as the experiences of fellow reefers a hydrometer and test kit were always the first items to purchase .
it doesn't take much homework to find out how valuable these two items are.



I have made nothing but mistakes with ALL of my tanks and as a result I have learned a lot with every one.......

I have thick skin and can handle (and appreciate) when someone points out a mistake regardless of the language used.

[Shagsbeard]

You'll want to take a much more scientific approach to handling your tank or you will be in for more and more disappointments. A hydrometer is an overpriced piece of plastic that can give you an idea as to what your salinity is. A refractometer is much more precise and not all that much more expensive. Get one.

Here's a great rule to live by... Don't put anything into your tank until you know exactly what you're putting in. That includes water... sand... and especially livestock. When you get a fish, you should quarentine it until you know you're not introducing some pathogen with the fish. When you do a water change, make sure you know exactly what is in the water you are using... that's why RO/DI is just the only option for water. When you get live rock, you should quarentine it too... looking for nasty hitchhikers and giving the Ich parasite time to die off without a fishy host.

Everything is going to take time. Months. Years. Very little that can be good for your tank can take days or hours. The ocean is an extreemly stable environment... we have to model that or we're doomed.

[tenwhiteduke]

Yes my mistake was to trust in a LFS who has tanks and tanks and tanks on display. How stupid of me to trust them????
This is my first time ever, how was i to know. No it wasnt the owner or the manager, it was a younger person working there, who even showed me his own tank in the store that is absolutely gorgeous.

Thanks Crhis

[sir_dudeguy]

well the lfs may not be the only moron involved ........
relying solely on the advice of a lfs employee for your initial (and critical ) setup seems a little lame.

well for someone just starting out...wouldn't you assume that the LFS knows what they're talking about? I'm surprised more people dont do this to be honest.

[tenwhiteduke]

Shagsbeard, can you explane to me how to know what im looking for when it comes to Ich. With all that salt will it kill off any parasites that my have been on my LR. All the LR was purchased from the LFS, that was already cured and in a tank.
What will I be looking out for? Please help

[crhis]

ok .........
my appologies if offense was taken

[tenwhiteduke]

I walked in Saturday, I said im interested in starting a sw tank? What do I need? How much? and what do I need to do? I purchased everthing I was told to get. Then went over his directions to set it up, afer asking a few times, and writing them down. As for me calling the kettle black, doesnt make any sense what so ever!! I had no knowledge what so ever, and trusted someone who did. HELLOOO!!!

[tenwhiteduke]

Its fine crhis, i appreciate your help, cause i def need it, OBVIOUSLY!!! I didnt know about this site until a couple days after set up. So from now on!!! I should have the right answers.
THanks to all for all your help.
Michael

[Amphiprion]

It's alright. It is a mistake (fortunately, you didn't have any livestock) and they happen. You are already remedying it, so I wouldn't let it bother you at this point. Now you know what you need to do in the future. If you see something you like, research it first, then see if the lfs employee has a similar opinion or just something to add from experience. At least you will know if what is being said is completely untrue or just wrong (again, fortunately you figured this out earlier on).

[crhis]

i'd even be weary of some advice given here....jmo..

I found the thing that helped me the most was joining a local aquarium club. it's a good way to see successful set ups and meet their owners ..... I found it to be rather educational . and not to mention it's a great way to get free/low priced corals and equipment .
i'm sure that there's one in your neck of the woods.
there's a reef club forum on here somewhere .
cc

[tenwhiteduke]

My questions could go on and on. So many things I need to know.
Skimmers, RO/DI, Pump, Fans, Lights, Lamps, fish, corals, clams, you name it. As for now. Hmmmm!

I have a Aquapod24, set up saturday evening. LR and LS, (Still learning all these abbreviations) My salt levels are still way up, thanks to that my first ammonia test color came out funky. So im still trying to get the salt levels back down to where it should be.
I did replace the original pump with a MJ1200 and added a Hydor Koralia 1. 32W Lamps (wish I had MH now). On my way with a few bumps in the road I guess. So any help is needed. Upgrades and such.

[Scuba_Steve]

Welcome to reef central! You have taken the first step to ensuring you will have a great nano cube. Like said above, just do your research. Ask questions and recommendations about anything you are unsure of. There arealot of crappy products out there, get opinions before you buy your skimmer especially! I recommend an aquac remora nano, or maybe an asm mini. You can always upgrade to mh later on, get all the other important equipment first. To battle your salt problem, just keep syphoning out tank water, and replacing it with ro/di. You can usually get this water from a lfs for pretty cheap, until you buy one of your own.
In the mean time, just wait your cycle out, itll take about a month. Read as much as you can. My first recommended reading is at the top of the newbie page by waterkeeper. He is a pretty funny guy, and puts some light into all the technical info. Here is a link to his new tank thread.
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=239848
The first post is a summary, but after that the next 40 pages are broken down step by step for what you will see as you progress.

[tenwhiteduke]

Thanks Scuba Steve, I just came back from that forum, reading more on the topics listed there by waterkeeper.

[Scuba_Steve]

No problem, after your done reading there, make sure you check out the nano forum too.

[papagimp]

fwiw, everyone is "ignorant" when starting this hobby. At some point or another you are in a position where you know nothing and have to learn sometime. So no offense is meant towards the "newbies" in question here. It happenes all to often to so many of us. I just got rid of a Dominoe Damsel last night after months of trying to find him a home. One of many mistakes I made in this hobby. And that was following the advice of a good book too, said the fish was okay for a communinty reef tank. Why would I doubt a published book that seemed pretty good. Alot of people just are not educated enough, espcecially when it comes to local fish stores. The owners may have the better knowledge, but do you think they require marine biology degree's or anything to hire their staff? usually not. Alot of this hobby is trial and error, since even the experts are not "expert" at everything. There is just too much unexplorered area's of this hobby and reefs in general.

Do the best research you can and prepare as best as possibly, but don't expect everything to go perfect. I know people who've had tanks for many years, even decades, and they still make a rookie mistake from time to time.

You made the mistake of trusting an obvious untrustworthy employee, lesson learned. I even agree with the comment that not everyone on this site should be trusted either. What works for one individual may not neccessarily work for another. By all accounts my tank shouldl ook like crap and everything should've died long time ago, but my setup works for me perfectly with optimal results.

You'll learn as you go, and laugh later on about all the dumb things you did earlier on in the hobby. Just like we do

[lat0403]

I was told by a LFS employee I could buy their Arag Alive sand, some of their base (dead) rock and put fish in the next day. Great advice, huh?

[papagimp]

lol, sounds typical. I was told a regal tang would simply love it in my 55g with the other 10 fish I already had in there. The guy seemed a bit stumped when I asked him what I would do with a 12" regal once he was grown. And then started trying to show me their large tanks for sale, LOL

[Travis L. Stevens]

Most of the advice given above is rather accurate, albeit some were typed with poor word choice. Most likely you aren't being steered that far off. After all, they didn;t sell you 20 yellow tangs to put in it that same day. Either way, you wouldn't go to war without a gun, right? Well, don't go into any fish store without prior knowledge. It's as simple as that. Know some stuff before going in, ask specific questions, and double check their answers. And then double check the answers that you are double checking Here are some great threads to help out on all aspects of the hobby: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1031074

I'm partial to this one myself
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=912378

And lastly, make sure you know the proper way to use, clean, and store any equipment you have for your tank. You might be surprised how accurate or inaccurate some of the equipment can be. For example, here is information about reading salinity and the tools to do it with.
Refractometers and Salinity Measurement
Temperature Corrections for Hydrometers
Chemistry and the Aquarium: Specific Gravity: Oh How Complicated!
Reef Aquarium Salinity: Homemade Calibration Standards
Lateral Lines: Hydrometer Observations Part I
Review of Hydrometer accuracy by Steven Pro
Discussion of said article.

[kfowler]

Travis's thread was a great help when I got back into the hobby. Great read!

[jim48]

Originally posted by tenwhiteduke
After Purchasing my new AP24 Saturday, and setting it up as to my LFS directions, I have found that my salt levels were way over board. WAY OVER, I have changed out atleat 8 gallons so far, and still its over. He aslo didnt tell me to buy a hydrometer, which i now have one. So I guess I will continue to change out water tonight some more, and have to start over with my cycle.

Being a lfs owner in the past I can appreciate your problems with just starting out. Believe me, I spent at least 50% of my time explaining the nitrogen cycle, species aggression, and all sorts of other issues with first time aquarium owners.

If you are going to get into this hobby, it is advisable to read a good book by a respected author on the subject. I always carried beginner type books in the store and always suggested to first timers to sit and read, read, and then read some more. Problem being is some people just don't like to read or take the time to read. It's easier for them to just ask their lfs to guide them. Unfortunately they don't always get the best advice how to proceed.

I never regretted taking the time to explain anything that a customer would ask of me. I always figured, if I get them off on the right foot I would have a long standing and loyal customer for years to come, not to mention probably a friend in the bargain. If your lfs does not take the time to do this, I would go elsewhere.

The best thing you can do is research through many different types of media. This will be an expense, but you will always have a reference to go back to in the future and you will need to go back occasionally. Lastly, take your time. You are going to be spending a decent amout of money in this endeavor. Don't take it lightly and it's not fair to the aquarium inhabitants if you rush into it.

We need responsible people in our hobby. So always, always make sure and try to do the right thing the first time. This will not always happen, but at least give it 110%.

I've been in the hobby on and off for over 30 years, owned a lfs for 4 years, and I'm still learning so much every day. I have so many questions in my head most of the time, I don't know where to start.

Good luck, and most of all HAVE FUN!