Pumping water from basement

jharler · #1 12/22/2006, 10:56 PM

I apologize if this has been asked before, but the search function is acting stupid right now and I can't search.

I'm setting up a new tank, and in an effort to make water changes as painless as possible, I'm going to have a pipe running from my sump down to my basement for drainage, and another pipe coming up for new saltwater that will be mixing in the basement. The water will have to go up about 7-10 feet, and travel vertically for about 20 feet.

My question is what kind of pump should I use? I know it's going to be an expensive one, so I want to make sure I buy one that's adequate enough the first time around.

Any help is appreciated.

sjm817 · #2 12/22/2006, 11:02 PM

If you are going to do that, why not set up a basement sump?

jharler · #3 12/22/2006, 11:05 PM

I'd rather not have water constantly circulating that far. Just having a pump to get water up when I need it (and not at 700 gph) would be better for me.

sjm817 · #4 12/22/2006, 11:13 PM

An external pump is best for high head apps like that. Gen-X externals are a good bang for the $$.

law086 · #5 12/22/2006, 11:16 PM

It will need to be a pressure rated pump. You'll have to look at pump flow charts to figure out what size. I'm guessing a medium sized pressure rated pump would get the water there... but not too fast.

If you want to save some bucks, a Gen-X would likely work . If you want the water up there fast, I'd look into something like an Iwaki 70 or 100.

Believe it or not, I run a basement sump, I pump about 12' vertical and around another 10' horizontal with a Mag 18. So I'm pretty sure something like a GenX PCX 55 or a BlueLine 55 would get you there.

Ron

sjm817 · #6 12/22/2006, 11:24 PM

On 2nd thought, for a water change pump something submersible would probably be easier to work with. How many gallons/hr do you want to move?

Vegas_ReefMan · #7 12/22/2006, 11:26 PM

I use the iwaki 100rlt pressure pump and it works great doing exactly what you want to do... It is a pressure pump and made for that. Get the japanese motor!

jharler · #8 12/22/2006, 11:45 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I think I am going to go for the Iwaki pump.

das75 · #9 12/23/2006, 12:11 AM

Lots of pumps if just looking for something for water changes. Look at the max head and curves here

But if going through the effort of running plumbing, add second line for a drain from the tank, your just about there for a basement sump.

law086 · #10 12/23/2006, 09:04 AM

Josh - you can't go wrong with an Iwaki pump, however, if you want to save a few bucks, BlueLine (Panworld) pumps use the same engineering (a previous engineering from Iwaki Japan started BlueLine) and cost much less.

Ron

Kshack · #11 12/23/2006, 01:32 PM

I just switched from under tank sump to basement sump and I would never go back. Tank is 250 gal. If you are going to run all the plumbing up and down anyway, take the time to think this out. I use Sequence Barracuda pump for return, and have to throttle it down somewhat. I have a 90 gal sump, with a 80 gal tank under it for making water. Water changes are done with the twist of a few ball valves. NO water in the living room.

Cuby2k · #12 12/23/2006, 02:52 PM

Iwaki pumps are noisy.

jharler · #13 12/23/2006, 03:42 PM

I'm not worried about noise, seeing as the pump will be in the basement.

As for a basement sump. Is it really practical to have one with the water traveling that long of a distance? Would say, the Iwaki 100 be able to keep a 700 gph flow going over that distance? How big of an affect does that much head have on the wear and tear of the pump?

sjm817 · #14 12/23/2006, 03:54 PM

Basement sump setups are awesome. I use a Gen-X Mak4 on mine which works great. Its not a quiet pump, but I dont care. Its in the basement. Id say it is doing ~ 700 GPH @ 10' head. I have a 180G display, 75G sump and 30g fuge. The noise from the return pump and skimmer are not in my living room. Its so nice.

I did a 40G water change today totally in the basement.

Cuby2k · #15 12/23/2006, 04:24 PM

Wear from being in the basement will not be noticeable, unless you have rats.

law086 · #16 12/23/2006, 04:50 PM

Josh - an Iwaki-100 is a monster of a pump.

Here's info on BlueLine pumps (same as Iwaki). Max head on the 100 is 45 feet (which would be enough for you):

http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/prod...r_pump/hd.html

According to the below link at around 30' of head, your flow would be around 600 gph (which is plenty IMO):

http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/prod.../hd_chart.html

One warning - expect to notice this pump on your electric bill. It sucks up almost 400 watts (ouch).

I would also have to say that I having a basement sump makes this hobby so much eaiser. I don't think I would be able to enjoy the maintence without the basement sump. If you're going to plumb these lines, do think about a remote sump. You can pick up a 100g Rubbermaid sump for like $70.

Ron

sjm817 · #17 12/23/2006, 05:01 PM

Why would you need a pump that uses 400W? He posted 7 - 10' I have 10' of head and the Gen-X I have uses 110W. It has more than enough flow.

law086 · #18 12/23/2006, 05:03 PM

BTW - here's a few picks of my sump setup (sorry it's messy!):

Sump area #1:

Sump area #2:

Water change / q-tank setup:

law086 · #19 12/23/2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sjm817
Why would you need a pump that uses 400W? He posted 7 - 10' I have 10' of head and the Gen-X I have uses 110W. It has more than enough flow.

I understood his first post to say that he'd be pumping about 30'... I quote:

"The water will have to go up about 7-10 feet, and travel vertically for about 20 feet."

Ron

sjm817 · #20 12/23/2006, 05:10 PM

Oh..you are right. I missed that.
20' vertical is a lot. Is it going up two stories?

BTW, killer basement fish room!

law086 · #21 12/23/2006, 05:21 PM

Thanks! I'm thinking I may enclose the room one day in which case I'll have to squeese a bit more :-)

I'm wondering if he meant 7-10 vertical and 20' horzental, eh? That would sort of be going up and over to another room or something.

jharler · #22 12/24/2006, 02:10 PM

That's what I get for posting when I'm tired. I meant, the line has to go up 7-10 feet and travel another 20 or so feet horizontally. It's going across my basement to the other side of the house to the tank on the main floor.

I used the head loss calculator and see that the Iwaki 100 would have plenty of muscle to pump the 700 gph that I need from the sump. I would actually have to restrict the flow a bit (the calculator estimated about 1400 gph).

I think you guys have convinced me to go with a basement sump. It would probably be easier to maintain and a lot quieter as well.

law086, that's quite a nice setup you have there. Mine will be significantly smaller, as I only have a 75g tank.

law086 · #23 12/24/2006, 02:21 PM

Hey Josh - if you don't need the Iwaki 100 - I'd go with a smaller pump so you don't have to pay the extra in energy costs.

Best of luck, feel free to ask if you have any questions as you set up your basement sump. Those Rubbermaid tubs work really well and are pretty cheap.

Ron

jharler · #24 12/24/2006, 02:28 PM

I'll divert some of the extra flow to the refugium, so it won't really be wasted. I'll ask my first question now.

How big of a refugium should I go for and how much flow should it get? Also, does anyone have any good links for setting up a basement sump?

Smitty750 · #25 12/24/2006, 03:32 PM

jharler, Im in the same boat as you are. I need to travel 35' horizontal and 12' vertical I cam across this pump which at me specs will give me 3000 GPH a 24x turnover.http://www.fantasticaquatic.com/prod...oducts_id=1516 I am planning on using this for my closed loop system, with a OM 4-way. I am still debating on a pump for my return water. I am planning on having about 100 gallons total in my sump/fuge and am looking for about a 5x turnover out of my sump. Ill keep you posted if I find anything in my travels but click that link thats pretty cheap price for a pump of that power. Hope this helps