Opinion: What's the financial "breakpoint" for reef setups?

[goreefer]

Isn't the "Finiancial Breakpoint" directly related to the thickness of the wallet?

[corals b 4 bills]

Originally posted by vanmo92
Definitely, Like how everything is contained in the stand.

Thanks! My wife and I talked (mainly my wife ) and we were going to have a baby (now two) so everything had to fit under the stand and out of harms way so I did everything I could think of to make that happen like putting the ballasts and the chiller out in the garage, It was quite a challenge but everything is still easily excessable-beleive it or not.

[lhoy]

I thought the breakpoint was "that point in the process of setting up a tank where the wife breaks and if you are able to endure, you just ignore and then buy the next piece of equipment."

The "subsequent breakpoint" as define by Reefsters is "the point where the wife discovers the receipts and attempts to break something of significance."

Hope that helps.

Lee

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by corals b 4 bills
I figured the yearly cost to run my tank is $1,900-$2,000.

$1900-2000???!!! Thats pretty high, what are you feeding that thing?

My 125g is a fraction of that. It costs $25-30 in electric per month ($300-360/year), bulbs cost $120-140 per year, RO carbon/sediment = $40-60 per year, CO2 = $10 per year, Ca Media = $20/yr, dosing & random suppliments... $100 or less for now. Food... Ill say $100 per year, but I know its a fraction of that. It COULD be $100 if I fed top notch frozen or fresh food every day. I suppose cleaner crew upkeep should be included as a minimum= $50 say in replacement snails a year, even though its lower for me. Im well under $900 a year.

The reason I want to point this out is that it all depends on the planning. I know there are 180g tanks out there that use more electricity and have higher upkeep costs than most 360g tanks! If you plan ahead and look for ways to keep the costs down, you can easily cut your cost in half. This is why I say 300g+ as the 'break point' rather than 180g, because with a smart design, you can have that 300g for less expense than that 180g, easily.

[ricks]

I don't know if it's so much what type of equipment you have. As what type of livestock you keep..

A softies/ LPS low light, low flow tank will run alot less than a SPS system. You could do a 500 gallon softies tank for a fraction of the operating expense of a SPS system...

I've found with my tank flow is as important as light. And we all know flow + light = heat, and that will suck large amounts of money outta your pocket. My system runs around 500.00 per month just on upkeep..

Happy Reefing

[wabio]

Yikes! If I spent $500/mo. on upkeep.....my GF would leave me! Probably, because I'd be spending more on the tank than her!

[corals b 4 bills]

My electric bill for the tank alone is $1,200 a year, here in california our total electric bill is between $280 and $320 a month, I have nearly 1,000 watts of lighting 3-250 watt & two 96 w PC"S, a 1/3 hp chiller (rarely kicks on), 14 pumps from Tunzes to aqua lifters, food for Tangs, RO, Media, and water changes. Trust me it adds up. But I'm not complaining between the wife and I we gross like $340,000 a year but she likes to stash alot into retirement and I like to stash it in my tank.

[poo-tang]

i totally argree with hahn, planning is key. plus there are alot of things we just do not need in this hobby. all the manufacturers know we are addidcted and love to spend our money on stupid gadgets we have to have. when i first started i thought a lot of equipment was a necessity, including protien skimmers, chillers, calcium reactors, wavemakers, controllers, ozone, kalk, reactors of all kinds each with their own pump. I mean if you planned ahead you could run alot of stuff on a dedicated drain to feed reactors and such. with tunzes and surge devices, dsb, fuge, and macro, and basement sump you could save alot including electricity. i utilize most of these except the surge device, wish i could. gotta have an ATO tho. i need one BAD.

[ricks]

Poo tang, what type of livestock,is your system SPS??

[corals b 4 bills]

I agree also, planning ahead would be great if you have the patience to do a years worth of research (mainly 500 gallon reefers) and some researchaholics, but most of us buy on the fly. sure I can buy a more energy efficient return pump and not have a reactor but we still pay one of the highest electrical cost then anyother state so there is little we can do, the lowest elect. bill Iv'e heard of here was $90 dollars.

[ricks]

Our house runs about 450.00 to 500.00 a month for power. About 300.00 to 325.00 is for the reef...

[corals b 4 bills]

How is the wife when it comes to your Reef?

[ricks]

Now she's fine, 20 years ago not so good. When the kids were young and money was a little tight, it was a struggle. But 5 tanks and 20 years have mellowed her. As long as the bills are paid savings and retirement are funded and the kids college is paid for. She pretty much leaves me alone with my obsession... Heck I'm already planning the next house and built in 10 x 6 x 3 1,350 gallon system... This one's gonna take sometime planning and convincing her...

Happy Reefing

[miwoodar]

My wife has recently become jealous of the attention I give my tank.... . I don't get it.

[corals b 4 bills]

Originally posted by ricks
Heck I'm already planning the next house and built in 10 x 6 x 3 1,350 gallon system... This one's gonna take sometime planning and convincing her...

Happy Reefing

Just can't shake that monkey even after all these years, my tank would be a 5 or 6 hundred gallon but I only live in a 1,400 sq.ft. home and the dining room is now called "The Fish Room". next year I'm adding a second story maybe I can talk her into it

[ricks]

That's to funny we turned our dining room into "The Fish Room" also... We had a 6 x 11 alcove and enclosed it with a false wall to look like a built in...

Yup, monkey's still there, I traded one addition for another..

[hahnmeister]

My next tank will be 500g, but the estimated cost of upkeep will be under $2000 per year (ave: $1850). Skylight/Sola-Tubes, dedicated/sealed & insulated rooms for the tank and sump, tunze streams, etc. And thats a 'max'. Chances are I wont even need the lights on for half as much as I am accounting for throughout the year, and so electric and bulb replacement costs get halved as well, which would take another $300-400 off.

[ricks]

I find you can spend as little as you like.. You can run a low flow- light system. Very little cooling needs, or demands from livestock. If you spend the time to DIY, you can save even more.. Hands on for all the testing, dosing, monitoring, and you save again... I really think like a post I saw recently. You could build a tank outta plywood slide it next to a window and fill it with saltwater. Add some rock and coral, and have a working reef.

I really don't think it's about how much you do, or don't spend. As long as it works for you and the livestock your trying to keep...

My opinion is it can be very demanding to keep a successful full blown SPS system on a limited budget... Things happen, change, come up that require CASH. I also feel that if you polled large SPS tank owners, You would find that most spend a little more than 150.00 a month to run there systems... I would also like to see pictures of the low budget systems and there longevity..

[corals b 4 bills]

Sorry to sound like a snob but low budget tanks scare me, most of them look like the bottom of the bay. "alright take it easy" there are exceptions Iv'e also seen some nice one's same with sumpless tank's but you will never see a low budget TOTM tank. MTV will not be airing Ghetto cribs anytime soon either. Money doesn't make one persons tank better then anothers it ALL boils down to great husbandry and steady chemistry, everything else is low maintainence. Just ask the late great Dr. Eng.

[hahnmeister]

To suggest that a system with a low monthly cost is an inferior one as far as longevity, convenience, or light levels isnt correct though.

Skylights for instance, provide a huge savings, and can easily have just as much if not more light than a halide lit system. Since even the most efficient halides still throw about 75% of their electricity directly into heat, and then some into IR, the lower heat transfer of a skylight to the tank and home results in additional cooling savings as well (chiller or A/C).

My $25-30 a month in electric 125g for instance, uses a light mover and tunzes, as well as a small eheim 1250 as the return pump. Sure, I could have used closed loops with high wattage pumps, and dual halides + T5s, and pay alot more for electric, but it isnt necessary.

[corals b 4 bills]

So have you determined how much of the day the sun will be directly over your skylight compared to indirectly? or overcast for that reason?

During the winter months my three halides in an inclosed canopy running all day only heat the tank to 79-80. I can't have a light mover either I have a two year old that would burn his eyes out so different strokes.

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by corals b 4 bills
Sorry to sound like a snob but low budget tanks scare me, most of them look like the bottom of the bay. "alright take it easy" there are exceptions Iv'e also seen some nice one's same with sumpless tank's but you will never see a low budget TOTM tank. MTV will not be airing Ghetto cribs anytime soon either. Money doesn't make one persons tank better then anothers it ALL boils down to great husbandry and steady chemistry, everything else is low maintainence. Just ask the late great Dr. Eng.

There already have been some 'low budget' TOTM's already. I think some are confusing 'low budget setup' with 'low budget upkeep' costs. Ill admit, there are few ways to keep down setup costs, but with larger tanks, concrete block can be used for a stand (or just poured concrete). Bottom panels might be made of PVC sheet rather than thick tempered glass, and then this makes plumbing alot easier as well. A low-operating cost doesnt mean it has to be cheap looking. Some of the best 'low upkeep' tanks are very expensive for startup.

[corals b 4 bills]

I total agree! I recently saw a thread on a 1,500 gallon concrete plywood tank that got me soooo excited that I was ready to build one when I realized that I don't have the room.

[ricks]

I would like to see a totally solar powered SPS reef that's indoors.. I have yet to see any successful solar reefs.. I have seen the indirect sunlight have a spectrum that promotes algae growth.. Might need a DIY phosphate reactor...

Like I said it's all in what you want to spend and what you want to keep. And what level that system achieves.

I agree with coral b 4 bills. You won't see TOTM on a budget..

Happy Reefing

[justinpsmith]

My in-laws in Trinidad (Caribbean) have a huge outdoor pond/tank that is in a gazebo type structure with skylights for light. They live right on the ocean and everything is collected right from their back yard including corals, fish, water, ect...A little different from a regular sky light but along the same lines. Their pond looked very healthy and colorful the last time I saw it. All they have that run on electricity is a jacuzzi pump for a closed loop and some lights for night viewing (not halides or anything though and only used once in a while). Very low cost after initial set up since all LR, corals, fish, ect. were collected for free!

I love the idea of a tank lite by natural light...It would be really nice not to waste so much energy for such a selfish reason!