Opinion: What's the financial "breakpoint" for reef setups?
 

If you're confused what I'm referring to. Think of microprocessor speed or car horsepower. As performance starts to increase, price slowly increases. At a certain point (say....around 300HP for cars), the price starts to increase dramatically for each marginal increment.

I guess the same can be said for aquariums (primarily due to panel thickness). It's cheaper to go from 100g to 200g as compared with going from 200g to 300g, etc. I've seen what the guys with 1000g setups shell out, and it's astronomical. :eek1:

I'm looking to upgrade in the not-to-distant future. My question to those with experience upgrading to larger tanks is...in your opinion, where's price breakpoint for reef aquariums? I'm talking the whole she-bang (with pumps, lights, etc.), not just the tank itself.

FWIW, I won't be going deeper than 30".

Depends on how you want to spend your money. Do you have to buy new equipment? Does it have to be top of the line? Are you a savvy DIY'er? How much time do want to spend doing maintenance?

Good points. Let's assume I wanted to start from scratch with equipment. In terms of saviness. I'd probably build my own stand, canopy, and sump using my current 100g; but buy a skimmer and calcium reactor. Don't need anything too fancy (i.e. no Profilux controller for me :( ). And let's assume an average amount of time with mainenance (i.e. hardy fish and coral species).

50.00 a gallon is generally a good estimate. This will include livestock as well(live rock, some corals etc.)

Do a search for jnarowe. He's a straight shooter and tells it like it is. 1000 gallon tank. [url]http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1266688[/url]

I think once you go over 210 gallons you are looking at bigger money. You have to start looking at custom tanks and just that is much more expensive.

I think $50 a gallon is a fair estimate, what I have found is the larger you go the cheaper that gets. For instance, My 220 ended up costing me about $6000. For that tank I built my own stand, bought rock from guys that were selling there systems and pretty much bought everything else new. The tank I'm building now is 1122 Gallons is going to cost me a little over 25K that’s less than $25 a Gallon, and that's all new equipment and new "fresh" live rock.
So I guess the answer to your question really depends on you. My 220 could have been done far cheaper, if I had built my own skimmer (or bought used) bought a tank from a builder like Glasscages instead of going with AllGlass, and used an old tank or Rubbermaid tub instead of having an acrylic sump custom made.
My advice is this, set a budget that you don't want to go over add 10% to it and do your homework. Figure out what will fit in the location you have and look for deals (ask for discounts) or simply find someone wanting to sell there system or parts of there system and get a smoking deal.

Good luck.

The tank only: a 125 gal (6 ft X 1.5 ft) is a price point. After that, the per gallon price increases. I went w/ the 125 vs. a 120, or 180 partially b/c of the price per gallon. I think the 125 price per gallon may have beat the 90, but not the 75.

you can always get good deals on stuff here or there


might think more long term
like will you be able to afford the electricity to run the tank month after month... then will you have the money to purchase all the salt for water changes... media for reactors... supplements

ETC ETC ETC
(the list of 'necessities/needs' goes on and on)

i read in melevs thread once
about how his electric bill was hurtn him financially... if you are lucky to be living in a place that has cheaper electricity well this wont be as much a concern...

bottom line bigger tanks cost more money
just be sure you are looking at the big picture when you are factoring in all your 'expenses' w/ upgrading etc

regards

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11408340#post11408340 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WarrenAmy&Maddy [/i]
[B]

i read in melevs thread once
about how his electric bill was hurtn him financially... if you are lucky to be living in a place that has cheaper electricity well this wont be as much a concern...

regards [/B][/QUOTE]


Yeah, electricity is my #1 fear. Like gasoline, you really don't have any control over it. Either you pay it, or you're screwed!

Makes me want to open up a fitness club and hook up generators to all the stationary bikes. :mad:

Thanks to all who have replied so far.

I wouldn't let any one fool you... Large reef (SPS) systems can cost big bucks. I could be wrong of course. I have found in my 20 years, cutting corners only leads to frustration. Large reefs take time and patience, to be successful. I find quality equipment a must, and being as automated as possible helps in the long term success.

My feeling on the matter is research what type of reef you would like to keep. Get all the equipment first and the tank last. This way when you put everything together it's as close to being complete as possible. My last system took over a year of planning and support equipment purchases..

Full blown reef with rock can run around 50.00 to 100.00 per gallon. this depends on used/new equipment. don't forget monthly costs! I would figure somewhere around 1.00 per gallon per month.. I know some people will argue with that figure. they are usually the people that struggle with this hobby, and give up..

I'm not trying to be a snob, but ask someone like Fastfish's TOTM. How much he has/does spend on his system... I think you will find it on the upper end. That coral doesn't get that color on a budget...

Happy Reefing

I'm upgrading to a 50G now. The tank and stand were given to me, great excuse to upgrade. My budget (equipment only) is roughly $1200, almost half of that will be the lights. So far I have the rock, sump, salt, overflow and return pump and a few miscellaneous things and I'm $60 under budget. Hooray for local clubs. I did some calculations and I figure that after adding up all my planned equipment wattage times the hours per day used +10% for inefficiency it's going to be using 58 cents a day to power everything at 9 cents/kWh, so a little over $200 a year. I switched out all the household bulbs for compact fluorescents, which should save at least $25 a year.

If it makes you feel any better, during the winter at least a lot of the electricity used in the tank gets released as waste heat, hopefully into rooms that need to be heated anyway, so it's not a complete loss (now I see you're in San Diego, never mind :) ). "Yeah honey, just think of them as enormous, horribly inefficient space heaters/humidifiers! That have to be fed."

[QUOTE]I know some people will argue with that figure. they are usually the people that struggle with this hobby, and give up..
[/QUOTE]

Between water changes, foods, supplements, lightbulbs (cost spread out over life of bulb) and not to mention gadgets, I'm closer to three bucks a gallon a month. I like to feed a lot, the fish like it. :D Oh, i don't keep SPS, that would be more.

I think the curve actually starts out high with nanos as far as cost per gallon, and then goes down as you get larger... usually about 40-75g. Then it continues to stay the same or go down (depends on how well planned the tank design is) up to about 300-400g (depends on square footage). Above 300-400g, then you are talking a huge jump in cost for equipment, and you are more than likely looking at getting special letters from the electric company. You are looking also at a custom tank & stand, perhaps massive construction for an 'in wall' look, and rarely will you find a tank this size with the sump tucked underneath.... it needs a seperate space (basement, closet, etc). Skimmers also tend to start jumping up in cost as well... because the mfg's know you are less concerned with cost when you go that large.

Still, with proper planning, you can cut costs ALOT, both short-term and long term. For instance, planning on 'sealed room' with built in fans and FRP panels can reduce the need for a chiller, and reduce the burden placed on your A/C. Sola-Tubes are often less than $200 to install, and make light (even in the northern states) equal to that of a 400 watter... as well as reduce the heat even more. You can use rubbermaid stock tanks for sumps/frag tanks, and build your stand from 2x4/4x4 rather than welded/coated steel. You can use tunzes rather than a closed loop with tons of holes that need to be drilled. You can also buy used equipment. All of these things will reduce the cost per gallon of a system. Heck, I plan on setting up a 500g when I move... but I will use sola-tubes/a skylight to light it (with supplimental T5s and blue filters) to keep the cost of lighting to a minimum. Even the tank dimensions make it more economical... 6'x6'x2'h... since buying 6' panels that are 2' tall only means about 1/2" to 5/8" glass... a huge cost savinge compared to needing a 3/4" thick piece for an 8' or longer tank. The stand will most likely be poured concrete posts/walls to keep it cheap (and then tile it so it looks cool and is 'bulletproof' from the salt/water). Sure is cheaper than a custom steel stand.

Here's a link to the RC electricity calculator:
[url]http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/tank_elec_calc.php[/url]

I was going to move my sump to the basement after someone gave me the perfect pump to do so. I churned it through the calculator and cancelled the upgrade after I realized I would be paying $35/mo just to run that one pump! I cancelled my closed loop plans at the same time and switched to stream pumps (MJ Mods). I get 1600 gph out of each on for only 20 watts of juice ($1.75/mo each). Tunze pumps run at even less wattage.

Craigslist.

90g is breakpoint because of glass thickness, unless you catch the sale.

1st year costs on my 55 and 75 - approx. $35/g

my 20g - around $125/g

The main diffrence is that on my 20, I bought corals,
vs. coral frags for the 55. and everything was diy. On the 20 there was some diy.

The 75 was an upgrade from the 55 - so the price
was for equipment - no diy.

sorry - forgot - no LR on my 55/75 that helped a lot. I did waste money on that on LR on my 20 - haven't seen any benefit, the base-rock was liverock within months. The LR seemed to die off at first
and I haven't noticed any difference...

I'd say around 240 gallons.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11408736#post11408736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister [/i]
[B]I think the curve actually starts out high with nanos as far as cost per gallon, and then goes down as you get larger... usually about 40-75g. Then it continues to stay the same or go down (depends on how well planned the tank design is) up to about 300-400g (depends on square footage). [/B][/QUOTE]


I agree. And I'm starting to also agree with Sunfish and HDAliens estimates. It looks like there's a hefty fixed initial cost no matter what the size. After that, you get a somewhat proportional increase to somewhere between 200-300 gallons. After that, it's high roller time.

My 155 would cost me around $15,000 to replace it if my house caught fire, so I'd say $1 per gallon is about right for a maintenance free tank. The price of the set up is fixed like others have said, it's the monthly/yearly expenses that kill, my Elec. bill each month just to run the tank costs $100. I figured the yearly cost to run my tank is $1,900-$2,000. So I think a 90 gallon tank is manageable, once you get to 180 it's a whole new world. Here are pic's of my tank so you can see the trouble you can get into. :D


[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/814365_7_2007_pic2jpg.jpg [/IMG] [IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/81436updated_door_pic.jpg [/IMG] [IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/81436All_4_reactors_online_2.jpg [/IMG] [IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/81436All_4_reactors_online_1.jpg [/IMG] [IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/81436Chiller_with_Halide_Ballasts.jpg [/IMG] [IMG]http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/81436Electrical_panel_close_up.jpg [/IMG]

wow that is an effective use of space! every thing is so organized... great setup "corals b 4 bills"

I would say when you go from a 4ft tank to 6ft tank. 4 ft tanks are much easier to light and provide water movement for. I went from a 120 to a 180.

[QUOTE][i]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11411245#post11411245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coseal [/i]
[B]wow that is an effective use of space! every thing is so organized... great setup "corals b 4 bills" [/B][/QUOTE]

Definitely, Like how everything is contained in the stand.