Lighting Website Updates - Page 32

Robert Patterso · #**776** 01/20/2007, 01:40 PM

Anybody ever had a new bulb not light? I bought a 400w Reeflux 10k, installed it on a Cool Touch standard ballast, would barely show a flicker in the inner tube. Don't recall what it's called. So I put it on a new PFO hqi ballast. Just sends a blue arc across the tube but still won't light. Both ballast light the xm bulb no problems. It's about 10 months old.

Retailer said they've never had one not light. Says they're not made for hqi ballast and won't last longer than a month, two at most.
I chose the reeflux because Sanjay's specs. show it to have the same ppfd as the AC 14k. Being that there's not a AC 14 bulb to be found (sure wanted on to) I went with the reeflux.

makoJ · #**777** 01/23/2007, 06:48 PM

Does anyone know where to find the evc 10k 400w bulbs?

hahnmeister · #**778** 01/23/2007, 08:15 PM

oceanencounter.com

http://oceanencounter.com/Merchant2/...ategory_Code=D

PITSTOP · #**779** 01/24/2007, 05:25 PM

Notes: MH’s with only 5 hours burn time.

New lights installed over my 120

2 x PFO 400w HQI Ballast
2 x 24” PFO Parallel Reflector
2 x Ushio 14K 400w SE
1 x IceCap 430 Ballast
2 x VHO 110w URi Super Actinic

FTS - 4K’s only

FTS -14K’s and VHO Actinics

PITSTOP · #**780** 01/24/2007, 05:26 PM

1 more angle

PITSTOP · #**781** 01/24/2007, 05:32 PM

It's like an icy-blue day - the heat coming down off the MH's is impressive - my chiller is getting a nice work out (Arctica 1/5 HP), but holding steady at 78-79F

Personally, I absolutely love the coloration and intensity.

Approx. how long until "burn-in?"

What happens when they do burn-in - more intense? more blue? ?

mwood · #**782** 01/24/2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PITSTOP
It's like an icy-blue day - the heat coming down off the MH's is impressive - my chiller is getting a nice work out (Arctica 1/5 HP), but holding steady at 78-79F

Personally, I absolutely love the coloration and intensity.

Approx. how long until "burn-in?"

What happens when they do burn-in - more intense? more blue? ?

What happens when you hit summer?

PITSTOP · #**783** 01/24/2007, 05:47 PM

I really don't think it will be a concern.

The chiller is well rated for my system size - it's new - I have a fan blowing on the chiller exhaust for added measure - so far it is on only sporadically - I will install a fan on the shelf behind the tank for added measure (I do this every summer regardless) - the canopy has twenty 3" holes drilled through the top so the breeze from the fans carries pushes the hot air right up through the vent holes.

Your concern is very valid and relevant for this kind of lighting over a 120 - heat is a major concern - my goal is 78-79 year round - if push comes to shove, I will run the MH's 3-4 hours per day - switch out 1 of the actinic bulbs for a daylight.

trueblackpercula · #**784** 01/24/2007, 07:31 PM

PITSTOP
Very nice tank...............Have a question or two. whats is your Magnisium level at only becuase the coraine looks bleach a little? Second I see that some of the corals look like they are on the light side.............I had this problem until i started to leave some nutrients behind. You may want to look into that. I also run a barebottom and had this problem just trying to look out

MichaeP.S. great looking tank........

PITSTOP · #**785** 01/24/2007, 07:46 PM

true that.

i will test Mag tomorrow, along w/calc and alk.

Not sure what to do about the nutrients - less water changes? Feed even heavier?

trueblackpercula · #**786** 01/24/2007, 09:05 PM

post results and we will take it from there. Water changes are always good................try skimming dryer and additives and feed the fish until you see the corals getting more color. Also light plays a big role as well they may be getting to much( time on) my want to cut back if they are on to long. In any case post some test and we can take it from there, but we do not want to highjack this thread so maybe pm me or start a thread,
Michael

hahnmeister · #**787** 01/24/2007, 10:00 PM

The Ushio 14,000K + actinics is a nice looking combo, but a little redundant. If you had 14,000K pheonix bulbs it would make more sense actually. See, the Ushio has a huge amount of purple (actinic) in its output already. The pheonix, while having a huge blue peak at 450nm, has less actinic than a 10,000K. So a pheonix can really use the actinic to help round out its spectrum.

The Ushio isnt that great of a bulb by itself, but if you combine it with the blue+ bulbs, it works better. What the ushios lack is a blue/450nm spike, not actinic. Those blue looking T5s, like the one 3rd from the right below...

have a much higher PAR as well. When I first saw it in person, I thought 'ice white' as well... just a hint of blue...

And the corals love it. Gipsy used to have his 150g lit with 3 halides... dual 250watt 20,000Ks and a 400watt radium in the middle all on icecaps. On top of this, he had two 6' VHO actinics. Everything in the tank was blue no matter what it really was. He was looking into lowering his electric use, so I suggested raising the K ratings slightly, and using T5s. The results were astounding when I finally saw them. He now uses a maristar with 3x250wattDE ushio 14,000K and twin rows of ATI blue+ bulbs. The corals never looked better (I never knew how many killer looking corals he had in there until the switch).

You can see before and after pics (as well as the dramatic results of him switching his 250wattMH pendant over his 40B frag tank to a 4x39wattT5 unit) here: http://web.mac.com/allongue/iWeb/Jul...m/Welcome.html

But here is a sample of the blue+ with ushio 14,000K...

fishsoldseprtly · #**788** 01/25/2007, 02:04 AM

anyone know what 250W SE bulbs go best with an HQI ballast?.
-best 10K
-best 14K
-best 20K

whats best rated in those categories?.

hahnmeister · #**789** 01/25/2007, 09:41 AM

There arent that many SE HQI bulbs. That is more of your challenge than finding the best. Ushio/BLVs are mostly HQI, so I would start there... they have 10,000-14,000-20,000K. Then I know Aqualine 10,000Ks in their 400wattSE package are HQI, so I would take a bet on their 250wattSEs being HQI as well. Aquaconnect 14,000Ks in 400wattSE are the top performing 400watters, and I would imagine their 250wattSEs to be as well since they are German made.

Otherwise, the Radium 250wattSE 'Classic Blue' is a HQI rated bulb... that I know for sure (its rated at 270watts), so it would prolly take honors for best 20,000K.

TropTrea · #**790** 01/25/2007, 10:17 AM

Just run a search through Sanjay's pages and you will have a great comparison of just about everything out there in MH's. I almost look as this data as the bible on Metal Hides.

<http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.c...ectballast.php>

Dennis

Quote:

Originally posted by fishsoldseprtly
anyone know what 250W SE bulbs go best with an HQI ballast?.
-best 10K
-best 14K
-best 20K

whats best rated in those categories?.

hahnmeister · #**791** 01/25/2007, 11:15 AM

Dennis,
Sanjay's site doesnt list which 250wattSE bulbs are HQI rated, and which arent.

PaulErik might have a better idea of whats out there in 250wattSE that is HQI.

fishsoldseprtly · #**792** 01/25/2007, 01:07 PM

thanks guys

Sanjay · #**793** 01/25/2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Dennis,
Sanjay's site doesnt list which 250wattSE bulbs are HQI rated, and which arent.

PaulErik might have a better idea of whats out there in 250wattSE that is HQI.

As far as I know, none of the SE lamps are HQI (M81) rated.

There are some pulse start lamps... but that does not mean that are designed for M81 ballasts.

sanjay.

PaulErik · #**794** 01/26/2007, 12:59 AM

No Single-Ended (SE) screw base 150-watt lamps are ANSI M81 Rated.

The most common single-ended screw base 250-watt lamps that are ANSI M80 rated or designed to ANSI M80 specifications are the following:

BLV NEPTURION 10,000K SE (HIT 250 cw E40 / 227021)
BLV NEPTURION 20,000K SE (HIT 250 ab / 227051)
Radium Blue/20,000K SE (HRI-T 250W/230/B/E40 / 324 11625)
Ushio Colorlite Blue/20,000K SE (UHI-S250/E39/BLUE / 5001484)

The most common and the majority of the 250-watt metal halide SE lamps used in the aquarium lighting industry are probe start (ANSI M58) and a few are high current pulse start (ANSI M80). None are actually designed to the North American pulse start standard (ANSI M138/M153) which has the same operating arc current and voltage requirements as a standard probe start (ANSI M58).

The only lamp recommended by the supplier for use with a North American pulse start 250-watt ballast (ANSI M138/M153) is the Aqualine Buschke 10,000K SE lamp. This lamp is designed to a European standard and in Europe people use a HQI ballast for this lamp.

hahnmeister · #**795** 01/26/2007, 01:33 AM

Sanjay, I would hope that none of the SE lamps would be M81 rated... thats a 150wattDE spec...lol. I dont think a 250wattSE would start very well on that at all (I guess you meant M80

)

Thanks for clearing that up Paul. I remember you telling me which 400wattSEs were HQI rated, and I knew for M80 its the Radium, and I could guess the Ushios, but the rest... beats me.

jag1979 · #**796** 01/26/2007, 07:55 AM

anyone know where to get the aquaconnect bulbs. I would like to try the 14k w/ my icecap ballasts...looks like the best par for a blue bulb and the plot looks similar to a 14k hamilton

TropTrea · #**797** 01/26/2007, 08:54 AM

If you look at Sanjay's list you have 38 bulbs that are 250 Watt SE which were tested on a HQI M-80 PFO ballast.

Now I do understand that the HQI ballasts run at higher bulb voltages than the magnetic or electronic ballasts which can shorten the life span of these bulbs. Therefore the manufacturers do not rate these bulbs for HQI ballasts, even though they will run on them and produce higher par ratings.

Where I think the variable might be here is when your using a HQI ballast over a Mag Ballast in the case of the XM10,000 your ppfd rating is 182 compared to 137 for a 34% gain however to what extent does this effect bulb life. Is it cut in half or reduced by 5 or 10 percent?

Dennis

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Dennis,
Sanjay's site doesnt list which 250wattSE bulbs are HQI rated, and which arent.

PaulErik might have a better idea of whats out there in 250wattSE that is HQI.

Randall_James · #**798** 01/26/2007, 12:03 PM

I am converting a 400W Hamilton 10K to a 20K bulb. The site does not show this bulb but I was told that it is the same as the Ushio 20K. Can anyone verify this?

Some of my livestock is not taking very well to the 10K in a 32" deep tank. (Anemone tank). Any comments on this move?

hahnmeister · #**799** 01/26/2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TropTrea
If you look at Sanjay's list you have 38 bulbs that are 250 Watt SE which were tested on a HQI M-80 PFO ballast.

Now I do understand that the HQI ballasts run at higher bulb voltages than the magnetic or electronic ballasts which can shorten the life span of these bulbs. Therefore the manufacturers do not rate these bulbs for HQI ballasts, even though they will run on them and produce higher par ratings.

Where I think the variable might be here is when your using a HQI ballast over a Mag Ballast in the case of the XM10,000 your ppfd rating is 182 compared to 137 for a 34% gain however to what extent does this effect bulb life. Is it cut in half or reduced by 5 or 10 percent?

Dennis

Dennis, Sanjay lists all of the bulbs tested on various ballasts regardless of what they are rated for. 250wattDE bulbs are HQI rated, higher pressure bulbs, as well as a few 250wattSE bulbs (well just talk 250s for now to keep it simple). Running a non-HQI rated/probe-start bulb, like that XM 250wattSE, on a HQI ballast will overdrive it, and burn it out much faster. JD's wife told me once that it wasnt uncommon to see SE bulbs on HQI ballasts that lost 60% of their output over a 9-12 month span because of being overdriven. There are many accounts of 250wattDE bulbs on HQI ballasts that have only lost 10% or less of their output after a year.

Lets put it this way... You know how 150wattDE and 175wattSE bulbs are so close in wattage, yet that small wattage spec difference keeps morons from running 175wattSE bulbs on 150wattHQI ballasts... well... I think 250wattSE/probe and 250wattDE/HQI bulbs should really be called 250wattSE and 300wattDE, as 250wattDE bulbs are running over 300watts on HQI ballasts. Then people wouldnt be sticking 300wattDE bulbs on 250watt probe-start ballasts... it would be more 'moron-proof'.

Running a HQI rated bulb on a lesser ballast can be just as bad if not worse than overdriving a bulb as well. The electrons never fully excite, and so the atoms deposit themselves on the wall of the tube, darkening the tube by taking their output from the bulb, as well as blocking the light from the other atoms that are giving off photons.

So when someone asks for a HQI rated SE bulb, they mean they dont want a low-pressure probe start bulb that will burn out faster and color-shift quickly.

ahhh jag1979, I think PE and I forgot to mention the Aquaconnect bulbs which are HQI (they are the highest output 400wattSE because of this). I think that their 250wattSE bulbs are also HQI rated.

hahnmeister · #**800** 01/26/2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randall_James
I am converting a 400W Hamilton 10K to a 20K bulb. The site does not show this bulb but I was told that it is the same as the Ushio 20K. Can anyone verify this?

Some of my livestock is not taking very well to the 10K in a 32" deep tank. (Anemone tank). Any comments on this move?

IME, every hamilton fixture has been shipped with Ushio/BLV bulbs unless its the hamilton 14,000K. Dont know where you are buying from, but if its hamilton, why not just give them a call and get a spec number to compare?