The Oceans pH Level Is Falling

[HippieSmell]

Originally posted by mikeshook
Ok, so the World is warming. Obviously this isn't the first time we've warmed and cooled. That warm and cooling is why we have the great lakes, that Kansas is a field and not a sea floor, why we have those big trees (redwoods) in California, and on and on.

Someone mentioned that we are in some "mass extinction" time period. That's silly. The Earth has always been in "mass extinction" period.

The people who this is market to is: The same people that the news targets with their fear sound bites.

When did Al Gore stop being a politican and start being a Global Climatologist? He should just stick to inventing the Internet.

I don't think you understand the extent of warming we are going through. It is not a purely 'natural' fluctuation.

The current mass extinction comment was by me, and it is correct.
http://www.well.com/~davidu/extinction.html

Global warming is targeted towards one half of the media induced fear market. Terrorism is the other half.

Al Gore has been involved in global warming since college, and has written a great book on the subject.

[techigirl78]

So I guess we just have to wait for the bird flu? Pandemics are nature's way of killing off a bunch of human beings, correct?

[HippieSmell]

Originally posted by samtheman
Population growth is uncontrolled in the US. Why do we need to be any bigger? Instead of reducing the quality of life why not reduce how many people we have to support.
Anyone in the contry can have as many kids as they want. If I drive an SUV I am bad, but if someone has three kids its ok, even if those three kids and thier kids will require far more resources than I will ever use. Look at the core problem and maybe illegal immigaration won't seem such a good idea.

The answer lies in economics, and is closely related to the resistance felt towards global warming. The population isn't out of control in the US, if you only count legal and current citizens. The largest growth comes from immigration, mostly from Mexico. Without population growth, economic growth slows down. Nothing is better for economic growth than more people, because people consume goods. It's all about economic growth, NOT economic sustainability. You don't get as many explosive profits in a static economy, and that makes business people sad. You have to remember that the US is top dog in the world power struggle and doesn't want to relinquish its position. We have a 'long hard slog' against the new players on the scene such as China.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by samtheman
Population growth is uncontrolled in the US. Why do we need to be any bigger? Instead of reducing the quality of life why not reduce how many people we have to support.
Anyone in the contry can have as many kids as they want. If I drive an SUV I am bad, but if someone has three kids its ok, even if those three kids and thier kids will require far more resources than I will ever use. Look at the core problem and maybe illegal immigaration won't seem such a good idea.

The US as a whole, is reproducing MUCH slower than most other countries. We're having much less children per capita than most other countries.

Illegal immigration has nothing to do with it.

From 1980 to 2000, the US population went from 230 million to 275 million.

In the same period, India went from 680 million people to 1.1 billion people.

See the difference? I would not call population uncontrolled in the US.

[collins]

Originally posted by schristi69
... 20 years ago people like you scoffed at the report that a hole in the ozone layer had appeared over the south pole ..... that is until they got satellite imagery of it. Now, skin cancer rates for Patgonia are 3 times higher. Glaciers are disappearing all over the world. Areas in Antarctica that have been covered in ice ...

Please check your facts before you excite the uninformed. The
hole in the ozone layer is shrinking and has been for some time.

The global warming rhetoric is also untrue. Some glaciers have receeded, but others have gained mass.

[HippieSmell]

Originally posted by RichConley
The US as a whole, is reproducing MUCH slower than most other countries. We're having much less children per capita than most other countries.

Illegal immigration has nothing to do with it.

Sure it does, it's just not the whole picture. The US doesn't want to go the way of Europe and Japan with not enough young people to support the economy.

[masterqaz]

Originally posted by samtheman
Population growth is uncontrolled in the US. Why do we need to be any bigger? Instead of reducing the quality of life why not reduce how many people we have to support.
Anyone in the contry can have as many kids as they want. If I drive an SUV I am bad, but if someone has three kids its ok, even if those three kids and thier kids will require far more resources than I will ever use. Look at the core problem and maybe illegal immigaration won't seem such a good idea.

i dont think we have to worry about reducing standards for we the human race is soon to be on the decline. Cancer, and aids are the big concerns right now and its just getting worse. the human race is due for a mass die off IMO. As much as we would like to believe it we arnt that close to curing cancer or aids, we can mearly slow it down.
But back to the main topic 206 years is a scratch in time.

[Biggie]

I wonder if they used a Salifert test kit or an off brand? Maybe the Pinpoint monitor wasnt calibrated when they took the measurment : )

[RobbyG]

You know the most Ironic part of Global Warming and Ozone depletion? At the current rate of Ozone depletion and Temp rise, in a few years maybe 20 - 50 the only people that will be able to go outside and enjoy what's left of the Planet are people of very Dark skin Color! Caucasian, Latinos and Asians will have to stay indoors or wear serious skin protection if they want to go outside.

If you think this is a joke, I suggest you do some reading up on the current situation in Australia. They have the highest skin cancer rate in the world by far, 80% of all cancers in Australia are skin cancer. Australians apply Sun screen in the morning to themselves and their kids as a regular morning ritual. Soon they will have government laws that make it mandatory for all clothing to have UV protection and even Laundry detergents are being made with UV protection.

All of this is only going to help for a very short period as the Ozone situation worsens each year. Just imagine in 20 years what will happen if the summer temps are at 130 and you have a power outage! Not a very comforting thought.

Those third world people that someone said we should nuke are probably going to be the only future inhabitants of this planet and that's Ironic.

[MCary]

I think you should all stop worrying. You will be relieved to know, I've started caring. Someone asked me today, "So Mike, what do you care about?" and I said "The pH of the oceans". I'm sure that raised the pH alone by .01. If I continue to care the pH of the ocean will be back to normal in no time.

I also realize, as pointed out to me, that even though I walk to work, recycle and practice energy efficiency, since my motivations are economical and not environmental I am actually making things worse. So I vow to change my motivations.

And since I have a good job, and economic prosperity leads to higher energy demands, I am contemplating quitting my job.

I hope everyone who loves the environment will join me and quit their jobs, oh and replace your metal halides with candles at your earliest convenience, wait candles produce CO2, make that lightning bugs. ANd for gods sake stop breathing out all that CO2 are you trying to kill us all! After all, you don't want to just play lip service to this problem right. Because we care.

Mike

[MacnReef]

Originally posted by RobbyG
YJust imagine in 20 years what will happen if the summer temps are at 130 and you have a power outage! Not a very comforting thought.

Yeah, like temps are going to reach 130 in 20 years...are you kidding me?! Really, think about 1986...was it 75-80 degrees during the hottest months here in FL...hell no...it was 95+, just like it is now.

Mike

[RichConley]

Originally posted by MacnReef
Yeah, like temps are going to reach 130 in 20 years...are you kidding me?! Really, think about 1986...was it 75-80 degrees during the hottest months here in FL...hell no...it was 95+, just like it is now.

Mike

We're definitely having hotter summers, colder winters, and worse storms up here in New England.

[Biggie]

Originally posted by RobbyG
You know the most Ironic part of Global Warming and Ozone depletion? At the current rate of Ozone depletion and Temp rise, in a few years maybe 20 - 50 the only people that will be able to go outside and enjoy what's left of the Planet are people of very Dark skin Color! Caucasian, Latinos and Asians will have to stay indoors or wear serious skin protection if they want to go outside.

If you think this is a joke, I suggest you do some reading up on the current situation in Australia. They have the highest skin cancer rate in the world by far, 80% of all cancers in Australia are skin cancer. Australians apply Sun screen in the morning to themselves and their kids as a regular morning ritual. Soon they will have government laws that make it mandatory for all clothing to have UV protection and even Laundry detergents are being made with UV protection.

All of this is only going to help for a very short period as the Ozone situation worsens each year. Just imagine in 20 years what will happen if the summer temps are at 130 and you have a power outage! Not a very comforting thought.

Those third world people that someone said we should nuke are probably going to be the only future inhabitants of this planet and that's Ironic.

Im pretty sure that by the time its 130 degrees here they will have fried by then. SO to say they will be the only inhabitants is far fetched since the desert dwellers are allready topping over 120 degrees. BTW if we make it 50 years without pollution, or trading Nukes with each other we will be lucky.

[MacnReef]

Yeah, but all you Yankees are the problem anyway. I am sure once God wipes you off the planet, he will let everything else go back to normal and the Ocean's pH will go back up....lol J/K of course

But to say that temps will reach 130 in 20 years, is rediculous. Now, I am speaking for most of the world...not AZ. lol

Mike

[beerguy]

Did we even have the ability to measure pH with a resolution of .1 200 years ago?

[MacnReef]

[violation]


Let's not go there please.

--beerguy

[MacnReef]

Originally posted by beerguy
Did we even have the ability to measure pH with a resolution of .1 200 years ago?

Someone said something about us measuring frozen ice or something...dunno, sounded good to me...lol

Mike

[MCary]

Robby, you seem awfully concerned about the Ozone depletion. Maybe I can ease your anx a little.

Depletion of the ozone layer has no effect on the risk of deadly skin cancers. The ozone layer blocks UV-B radiation, but it does not block UV-A radiation. UV-A radiation has been linked to malignant melanoma, a deadly form of skin cancer. UV-B has been linked to only two types of skin cancer, neither of which is life-threatening.

Source:

"Myths and Facts About the Environment -- Part II: The Hole in the Ozone Layer," The National Center for Public Policy Research, Contact: David Ridenour @ 202/543-4110, e-mail: EarthDay@nationalcenter.org, Web:

I hope that makes you feel better.

Mike

[MCary]

Beerguy, I know your on staff here, but that still doesn't give you the right to use common sense in challenging political correct preconceptual scientific research!

Disapproving signed,

Mike

[Flobajob]

I am sure that most of you have heard of global warming, but what about global dimming - there is a theory (with some strong evidence behind it) that the increase in pollution not only increases the greenhouse gas layer in the atmosphere, thus trapping heat, but produces more airborne particulate material, which act as condensation nuclei for clouds to form. The increased numbers of clouds (containing reflective water droplets) reflect away solar radiation, causing the Earth to cool down. The trouble is, by cutting pollution we may reduce global dimming at a greater rate than global warming, thus causing the Earth to heat up even further...
... 'so what does this have to do with the pH of the oceans?' you may ask. All I'm saying is that our understanding of the planet we live on and the impact we have upon it is so limited that to change our lifestyles completely because the pH of the ocean has changed a bit is absurd and illogical. We don't fully understand what effects the changes we make will have (if indeed they have any major effects at all), and by reacting rashly, even though it is done with the best intentions, we may be causing more harm than good.
That doesn't mean to say that the environmentalists are wrong though - I think the worst attitude to have is to say 'I don't care,' since these issues do affect us. I just think that people should be more conservative and careful in their arguments and their actions, rather than blazing ahead and ridiculing others for their views.

[Biggie]

Oh man how I love to hate Yankees lol...

[MCary]

It is perfectly acceptable to care about something. It is not however acceptable to attact, belittle or place your self above someone else who doesn't care about the same issues as you.

Skeptism is healthy. It is normal. You should question and challenge.

There is plenty of conflicting evidense that global warming is either/or:

not real
not anthropologic
not detrimental
not reversable
not preventable

for someone to have a legitamate opposing opinion. There is not any reason that person should be ridiculed, blamed, or shamed. He is not adding to the problem any more than you just because he doesn't care. The scope of this thing is too big for individual effects.

Mike

[Biggie]

Originally posted by MCary
It is perfectly acceptable to care about something. It is not however acceptable to attact, belittle or place your self above someone else who doesn't care about the same issues as you.

Skeptism is healthy. It is normal. You should question and challenge.

There is plenty of conflicting evidense that global warming is either/or:

not real
not anthropologic
not detrimental
not reversable
not preventable

for someone to have a legitamate opposing opinion. There is not any reason that person should be ridiculed, blamed, or shamed. He is not adding to the problem any more than you just because he doesn't care. The scope of this thing is too big for individual effects.

Mike

Dude you just added about 1000 points to my next scrabble game with that. Thanks tons!!!!

[dreaminmel]

I forsee this thread "moving on" relatively soon...

[MacnReef]

Well, then I better use this to get my post count up higher...

Mike