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#76
07/13/2007, 04:10 PM
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not tomorrow
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current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#77
07/13/2007, 04:13 PM
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Ill second Dave. We need competition though... that is key. If more than one position ends up being a carry from a single nomination... things might not be so great.
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#78
07/13/2007, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Also what about trying to expand the WRS discount/sponsorship to some northern IL stores? Maybe see if Sharkys in Grayslake or Something Fishy in Fox Lake would be interested. There seems to be a fair number of us "Border Dwellers" that fall into the blackhole between Chicago and Milwaukee, this would be a good way to get some more members and Sharkys has opened up for CMAS meetings, might be interesting to see if a WRS meeting could be held there sometime. One thing I like about CMAS is they have LFS liasons for each place. Now that might be a bit to structured for this area but something similar would be nice. Maybe have the liason for each LFS do a rundown on what stock the place has on a monthly basis or what to expect from each LFS in the area and that person could alert others to sales/promotions the store is having. Just some idea's from a non-current but future member. |
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#79
07/13/2007, 04:27 PM
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A publication would be something for a society though, not just a club.
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#80
07/13/2007, 04:49 PM
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This thread needed some humor so I had to throw that in... My bad Dave and myself are going to be at a bon fire, this is what he was talking about not that he is going to show up for the club meeting tomorrow. |
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#82
07/13/2007, 04:56 PM
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Dave |
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#83
07/13/2007, 08:25 PM
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current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#84
07/13/2007, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
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current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#85
07/13/2007, 09:22 PM
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I would be willing to assist the club in some capacity. I was going to bring it up at the meeting. I would like to see a board type situation as well as a premier of some sort that would maintain order. I nominate Prugger as premier. Good discussions going on here, its good to see enough people want to change WRS for the better.
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#87
07/14/2007, 02:14 AM
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Lots of good names mentioned for leadership roles. And I'd be pretty comfortable with any of them really. Saw my own name mentioned too. Flattered, and I wouldn't mind helping out in some fashion. But I dont think I could be counted on for having lots of free time to put into extra activities. In fact, I only even make to about 50% of the meetings at best.
Had a lot more free time a couple years ago. But now that mine and my wife's jobs relocated to Chicago area, a lot of my free time is spent driving to and from work, picking and dropping off up kids, etc etc etc. I just have enough time to do my regular maintenance, bi-weekly water changes, etc by cutting back on sleep time  One post I saw mentioned having 'teams' in place for certain leadership functions. That's an interesting idea and perhaps with that sort of organization, I could find a way to help somehow. But I guess with teams you run the risk of each team members relying on the others to do things - and maybe nothing ends up getting done if you are not careful. Anyway, it's very doubtful I'll make it to the meeting next week. I'll be traveling home that day, but probably wont make it back until late afternoon. Too bad, looks like a lot needs to be discussed. I look forward to hearing more ideas that people come up with. Try to keep the discussion civilized. Some people really want to have this club with more formal structure, some dont care - I dont think it changes that much as far as the way the meetings will be conducted. It would probably be a transparent change for the most part. If it brings some additional legitimacy to the club, then I guess that is fine. Well gotta go try to get some sleep - I'm leaving in 3 1/2 hours to try to win this bass trophy 
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"One day, someone showed me a glass of water that was half filled. And he said, "Is it half full or half empty?" So I drank the water. No more problem." |
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#88
07/14/2007, 11:00 AM
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Please, these are only topics/suggestions for discussion at the barbecue. If anyone has other topics/suggestions lets add them here.
1. Elections need to be held and held on an annual basis. The BBQ seems to be a good time for that; it probably draws high attendance numbers. 2. Four elected positions, President, Secretary, Treasurer, and Sergeant at Arms. 3. Should be the duty of the leadership to have at least one of the leaders be present at every meeting. 4. Any one of the leaders should be able to sign new people up, not just the treasurer. 5. WRS website is great and I know it took a lot of work, but I think that it should be an information page with some pics and info and a link to the WRS forum here on RC. CMAS seems to be doing fine with that. 6. "Teams" of people working on different things for the club that all work together so that they are not stepping on someone else’s toes or dropping the ball. It would keep one person from getting over whelmed with work. 7. It would also be beneficial when some people hit events or know certain people around the hobby that would be willing to get speakers auction items to raise funds when needed or if needed. 8. A standard form for new members to fill out that contains all the required info. 9. A Vice-President position would be helpful to take some of the work off the president. This would add another person to make sure someone from the WRS leadership can make it. 10. Should attendance be taken at all meetings? 11. Should you have to show your membership card at the meetings? 12. What about a club photographer? Someone to take pics for the events/meetings. 13. Club Fee’s & how much are they going to be? 14. What are we as a club going to do with the club’s funds? 15. A representative from each county where we have members, possibly a director position. Milwaukee County may need one for the North & one for the South Side.
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I've been told, I have skimmer envy. Proud Member of the wisconsinreefsociety.org & cmas.net |
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#89
07/14/2007, 02:27 PM
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Gee prugs, said like a true president....lol...
Id just like to add that people should at least fill out their profile info on the WRS website, and update the gallery with pics of their corals. Perhaps the best method for some is to just make a thread on your setup with info on what you keep, size tank, eqiupment, etc. Even if you are for something more like a MARS system, the thing I still have to point out is that they have this, and it makes it much easier to network. With a less formal club, then the website info becomes that much more key. For those of you out there with lots of frags to sell, and who would otherwise want a frag swap, why not start by posting pics and prices of what you have? We can see how that does, and if the transactions are good enough, perhaps a frag swap is a good idea. Otherwise, if we all update our info, and still very little gets traded, whats the point of the swap? I would just hate to see all that time and effort going into an actual event just to see acros with red-bugs, crappy looking zoas, GSP, and xenia frags... oh, and 100 frags of digi colonies that everyone already has, getting shown by only a dozen people who show up or something. I suppose Im trying to say that its premature. We need to get membership participation up first to a level that a frag swap would be worth it. Otherwise the only one making out at a frag swap would be Bill, and everyone else would be taking their own frags back home because everyone already has what they were trying to sell, and nobody bothers to bring frags of their 'good stuff' to a frag swap, because bringing the 'good stuff' is 'not worth it' for a frag swap. For a publication though, it should be an online one. Perhaps a yearly printed 'best of' would be a good idea. Just to let people in the stores know we are out there. The MAS 'Splash' publication does get them ALOT of exposure, but they are catering to a different crowd and trying to get people new to fishkeeping all together, which is alot easier. Chances are that someone willing to drop coin on a reef aquarium will get told about RC at least, and see us through there MAYBE...(if they know to look in a local club section). At least, a reefer will be serious though, and if stsrting to network in any way, would get told about WRS or the club section on RC. If we had a flyer around local stores/businesses that we just made once a year to let people know we exist, and how to contact us... we might get some people to consider the hobby that otherwise had not. The flyer could be an actual article filled mini-mag (Splash), a flyer, or, maybe even a glossy poster? This would be one thing that we could use the funds for that would be easy and money well spent. But once again... people need to make threads and write articles in the first place. Im not tooting my own horn, but look at the photography section and the thread on my new tank... thats what Im talking about. Im not saying everyone needs as much detail or anything, but members all need to get their stuff on the WRS site!!! Pics, info, bios, contact info, etc... A club or society is all about communication or its dead. Also, simply having a link to your bio or a thread on RC or another site isnt what Im talking about. Fill it out on WRS... thats where it counts when local reefers want to see whats going on with other local reefers. So now I nominate Paul Law for Sarg at Arms or Board Member at least. I nominate Frank Hendricks for VP. I nominate Prugs for Pres (because he actually goes to meetings among other things). I nominate Boyd for Treas (unless he doesnt want it). I nominate Bill Davis, Cory, and Josh for Board. If Paul doesnt want Sarge, then 'Thorium'. Thorium is new, but accomplished as a reefer and technically oriented... so who better to keep the order? Wait a second though... hes the drunkest one though usually...lol. Okay... maybe not. I would nominate Bill for something more than board, but I dont think he wants to attend every meeting. Someone should get a hold of JD about next week... I think I have his # still... Perhaps its time to get everyone together. September re-enlisting is close, so we should try to stamp out all the details by then. I can make a form for members (new, but everyone should fill out)m based on what the MAS one is like... but with the website, perhaps it would be easier if the details in the bio were also more elaborate and updated.
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein Last edited by hahnmeister; 07/14/2007 at 02:39 PM. |
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#90
07/14/2007, 02:47 PM
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Why do people have to sell at a frag swap? That is not a swap... It should be for people to trade corals. It could be a meeting were people bring corals they want to swap with other people. It could even be decided before hand on what corals you want to swap and with who.. Why do people have to profit off other people in the club? Thats one of the things I hate. Thats not why you join a club. People should not be holding meeting just so they can sell to the club. that is not a meeting.
to me if a member is a vendor and they want to sell to people in the club and people want to buy from them that is fine but it should not be done at meetings. If they sell to the club at discounts that is even better just not at meetings. Problem if this is not enforced you have people joining a club that really do not care about the club they are just part of it to make money. Dave |
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#91
07/14/2007, 04:51 PM
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You are right, we dont have to 'sell' at a frag swap. But this presents problems of their own then. It makes participation by new hobbyists that much harder (nothing to trade, which also cuts out the potential for non-member interaction). It also makes little sense for those with fully stocked tanks to want to trade. Thorium for instance: might bring loads of cuttings to unload at a frag swap to help thin out his tank but wouldnt want to end up taking corals home so much. It makes people less willing to bring more valued pieces (why trade when you can keep it to sell?). So in the end it means people are most likely to just end up with more common pieces that everyone already has in the first place. Its supply and demand... a frag is a frag and money is money. Im not saying people should be looking to profit off of it, but if I bring a bunch of blue tort, blue zoa, and lord frags, and everyone else brings orange cap, pink birdsnest, green-purple digi, and the other 'common corals' in the club that everyone has already traded... whats the point?
Sure people should not be looking to profit off of other members... but look at it this way... If I decide to get a business liscence so I can buy my own equipment and livestock at a discount as a wholeseller, but this also means I need to keep a minimum amount of orders (and sell to others) to keep it worth my time, getting other members to buy from me would benefit both me and them. I might make a little side cash, and get my stuff for cheaper than retail. The other members have a source for getting equipment at a discount. Its a win-win situation for all involved. As far as selling vs swapping, if everyone agrees ahead of time what we are swapping... isnt that just a normal meeting then? Whats the point of a swap then if everyone knows what who is bringing for who? I would rather just go to someone's house then, or pick it up at a meeting. And as far as swap vs. money... it does keep things fair. I would hardly call swapping a duncansoma for a frag of orange monti a fair trade, so there has to be a value assigned to a frag. If its points, dollars, etc... supply and demand says that value must be assigned. Otherwise you get that cheapskate who tries to walk away with everyone's choice stuff in exchange for GSP because 'its just a trade'. If we were all on the same level, this might not be a problem... but this just isnt so. Besides, most of us arent trying to charge $50 for acro frags... we are charging $8 or $10... to help pay for the hobby. Lets face it, this hobby is about money. Paying someone $15 for a frag at a frag swap is nothing compared to the thousands in equipment. Good point about meetings, but we need people for meetings more than we need to tell them what they can and cant do. Hey, if someone wants to host a meeting where they want to sell corals or promote something... thats their choice, no? One of the best meetings was the Jeff Turner/Matt Allen semi-marketing meeting at Matt Allen's house. The raffle prizes were awesome. Then, Paul Law got Steve Schor to come up and do a little presentation to the club as part of his meeting. It did enhance things. The bottom line is that if people dont want to be sold something, they dont have to open their wallets. Vendors and promotional support gives us more exposure, as well as cool raffle items for the members. I could see us enforcing the 'no money exchanged at meetings' rule if we had plenty of potential hosts to pick from... but at the moment, supply and demand dictates that the supplier can provide whatever they want (its up to them) as long we get the time and place for a meeting. Lets face it... almost all of us are in this to trade/sell frags or something. In one way or another, we are all promoting something... its part of the hobby in a way. Dont get me wrong, I would love to see a genuine frag swap, but I dont think WRS could pull it off right now. At the very least, I would suggest that if a swap were planned, then we should do it with another club or society. That way, we arent just trading among ourselves over and over... we do that as is.
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"If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Al Einstein |
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#92
07/14/2007, 07:43 PM
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Actually if you where interested in trading with you would need to start out buying better stuff other than just GSP's. This encourages people to obtain better livestock by offering a trade only rule. The frag swap could be many different things including having speakers that will attract the new hobbyists and people who have been around for a while. I am sure that many good vendors would be willing and happy to donate stuff for raffles prizes as well to support an educational time like this even here in Wisconsin.
Lets face it we are fortunate to have overcome the set it up quickly and stock our tanks full of corals and hope everything will live under power compacts. I for one was luck enough to run into a few hobbyists who have a different philosophy on how to support your hobby, here is a new one for some. Only set up what you can afford to sustain and make sure you have the equipment that can provide the corals and fish you need with what they need to live by doing research wether that is reading books or getting more into the scientific end of the hobby and actually performing studies. |
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#93
07/14/2007, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Does anyone have more to add?
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I've been told, I have skimmer envy. Proud Member of the wisconsinreefsociety.org & cmas.net Last edited by Gem Tang Rider; 07/14/2007 at 11:42 PM. |
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#94
07/15/2007, 08:23 AM
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Revised list for discussion.
1. Should elections be held on an annual basis and when? 2. Five elected positions, President, Vice-President, Secretary, Treasurer, and Sergeant at Arms. And or a group of Directors, a representative from each county where we have members located. Milwaukee County may need one for the North & one for the South Side. A Treasurer will always be a required position. 3. What percentage of the meetings must the leadership attend, if any? 4. Should any one of the leaders be able to sign up new people? 5. WRS website is great and I know it took a lot of work, but I think that it should be an information page with some pics and info and a link to the WRS forum on Reef Central. CMAS seems to be doing fine with that. 6. Organize "Teams" of people working on projects for the club & follow up on the progress at meetings. It would keep one person from getting over whelmed with work. 7. Have people hit events or contact people around the hobby that would be willing to get speakers and auction items to raise funds when needed or if needed. 8. A standard form for new members to fill out that contains all the required info. 9. Should attendance be taken at all meetings? 10. Should you have to show your membership card at the meetings? 11. What about a club photographer? Pictures are always fun to look at. This could be one of the leadership positions. 12. We will always need a Webmaster. Website or webpage, this is a large task. This could be one of the leadership positions. 13. Club Fee’s & how much are they going to be? 14. What are we as a club going to do with the club’s funds? 15. Should you be allowed to sell livestock/dry goods at any meeting, or meeting that you host? Or should only trades be allowed? 16. Should each of the leadership be required to host one meeting a year?
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I've been told, I have skimmer envy. Proud Member of the wisconsinreefsociety.org & cmas.net |
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#95
07/15/2007, 08:31 AM
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My brain hurts.
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Rule #1 is DON'T TALK ABOUT FISH CLUB! CMAS & WRS Members ><))))"> |
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#96
07/15/2007, 12:35 PM
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Also I know my comments about vendors might be taken wrong. I do not have a problem with vendors being in the club. I actually would welcome them. I also have no problem with them selling to the club because I do realize they can not just give stuff away all the time because of the cost associated with it. I just do not like to see it during a meeting.. Any other time is totally cool. I am not sure how many vendors are even in the club. My opinion places like aqauatics unlimited and other similar places should to show there support for the hobby. I am about to start raising black onyx clownish. If I do one batch I will probably give or trade them all away. If I end up liking it and doing a few more batches or even turn into a small business. Well those people who were generous to me will get some for free. If i was in wrs I would trade or sell for a small fee to recoup some costs and most likely donate some for a raffle for wrs like gooch used to do. Anyone out side my friends or wrs would have to pay more. There are allot of cost associated with raising fish. The phyto cost to raise rotifers and other foods. Saltwater and electricity to run brood stock tanks, rearing tanks and cultures. Basically I am saying I understand the cost associated for vendors. Dave |
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#97
07/15/2007, 03:15 PM
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I know this is a little off topic but I think it should be mentioned.
I keep seeing, discount , discount, discount in a lot of these threads on a lot of the reef club websites, not just wrs. In this day and age with the 150,000 plus reef clubs out there is asking for a discount even realistic anymore? Think about it. When I was a vendor I would get e-mail after e-mail from club after club after club looking for a discount. It was sickening. At first I gave freely feeling I would get business out of it. I soon came to realize that that rarely happened. Then it started to get out that I gave a discount to club members. Then my non club member customers would say hey what about me. I shop here weekly don't I deserve a discount. And you know what they did as they would spend more money on average than anyone in any of the reef clubs I donated to. So now I am discounting to every club on the market and every customer that walked in. So now I was making less and less. To the point where it wasn't worth it. What's the first thing I had to do.....raise my prices. Now I get accused of gouging people and I am no longer in business cause I love the hobby I am greedy and I love the money. Let me tell you when I shut down I had lost over $150,000. Three years later I am still paying this debt off. The three years I ran the shop I didn't pay myself a penny. Alot of that was poor business planning and a lot of it was lack of support. I guess what I am getting at is this. Markups in this hobby are much smaller than you think. Stores are making less than you think. They want to support you, they do. But when you constantly talk discount discount discount you turn them off real quick. I was talking to an online vendor out of Californiaabout a year ago. The subject of club discounts came up. We both kinda changed our tones a little and had eirily similar stories. He use to do group buys for clubs and he would barely break even. One day he realized that it was a lost cause all together and stopped them. It just wasn't worth it. When there was only a handfull of clubs it was a good idea, it really isn't anymore. Just to many clubs and to many non legit clubs with the only purpose is looking for deals. Again if you really want to stand out as a club you have to change the mentality of the club. Stop looking for handouts and do something to put yourselves in a positive light. If you do that people will want to be a part of it and sponsors will want to donate and support you. Say I was a lighting manufacturer that was coming out with a new product and I wanted to donate a couple fixtures to get the word out. Am I gonna give to the club that e-mails or calls every six months looking for a handout or a club that is active and doing good things in the hobby, doesn't search for freebies or discounts. A club that is recognized for outstanding accomplishments or a club that bickers over rules. Trust me adopt this philosophy and stop looking for what you can get out of WRS and think about what you can put into WRS and you will thrive. You will grow and you will prosper. WRS still has awesome potential and a great membership base.
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Just when I think I'm out.....Something pulls me back in. |
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#98
07/15/2007, 06:53 PM
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BTW - If anyone wants to act as Sergeant at Arms for the meeting, they're welcome to use my sons Super-Soaker to make sure nobody gets out of line and the discussions remain civil!
 I nominate Corey |
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#99
07/15/2007, 07:04 PM
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When Eric and Gareth started the club, vendors were jumping at getting the product out now they don't answer our calls
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current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump |
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#100
07/16/2007, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
 I'll bring rain gear.
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I've been told, I have skimmer envy. Proud Member of the wisconsinreefsociety.org & cmas.net |
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