Millipora polyp issues

gawf4fun · #1 04/30/2007, 07:15 PM

I need the experts!

I have grown very fond of millipora, particularly the heavily polyped species which sway in the water flow. I recently purchased two 4" multi-branching frags from my LFS. I slowly acclimatized them to my system using the drip method and placed them high in the tank. They looked great within 2 hours, heavily polyped, and happy, it seemed.

Now, after two weeks the polyps have recessed so that I have to look very closely to see them and the coloration has gone from pink and blue to pinkish brown and blueish brown. I have reviewed all aspects of my system and cannot determine why.

I keep a variety of SPS, LPS and a couple softies in the tank, all of which are doing well. I'm hoping for expert opinions on what might be happening here. The tank has been running for just about a year now.

Tank details:

190 gallon tank and sump volume.
Water parameters: nitrate 0, nitrite 0, DKH 9.6, calcium 420ppm,
phosphate 0, temperature maintained at 79-80 degrees with 1/4 HP chiller, Salinity 1.026
I dose strontium, Coral accel, and magnesium once a week per volume instructions
Skimming: Precision Marine Bullet II
Calcium reactor: Precision Marine with ARM media
Flow: Iwaki MD-55 return through 3/4" Sea Swirl and Ampmaster 3000 closed loop w/hydor Koralia 600 gph powerhead
Lighting: 2 x 14k 400 watt MH and 4 x 65 watt actinics run on dusk to dawn for 8 hours and 10 hours respectively.
I have an auto-top off system feeding the sump with RO/DI water.
I feed daily alternating between 1) a blendered mixture of frozen foods with shrimp, formula one and two, 2) Frozen cyclopeze and pellets, 3) a combination of flake spirulina, cyclopeze and formula 2.
Tank inhabitants: yellow tang, coral beauty, sailfin tang, blue jaw trigger, 6-line wrasse, 2 damsels and the usual assortment of crabs, snails, starfish for clean up work.

I do have a small outbreak of flatworms, which the 6-line is working to reduce, but for my mind, everything is hunky dory.

Any suggestions would be awesome. I haven't posted much on Reef Central so I hope I've given enough details to the crew to identify ideas for the experts. Thanks in advance.

mark

BLKTANG · #2 04/30/2007, 07:29 PM

Maybe your coral beauty has taken a liking to your new milii's.

What r u using to test Po4?

meschaefer · #3 04/30/2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BLKTANG

What r u using to test Po4?

That is my first question.

Do you have any other Acros, and how are they doing.

bitis316 · #4 04/30/2007, 08:27 PM

Try oyster eggs....My milli loves it...I feed all my sps three times a week....maybe drop the salinity to 1.024 or 1.025 ....1.026 is kinda getting towards the red sea.......But hey...If thats working for you by all means don't take my advice as an affence....I was just saying mine do well this way....I have red, blue, green, yellow with blue filaments, and purple milli.....It's one of my favs......I hope ya get this fixed..>let us know...

Marko9 · #5 04/30/2007, 08:36 PM

I love millis...

gawf4fun · #6 04/30/2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BLKTANG
Maybe your coral beauty has taken a liking to your new milii's.

What r u using to test Po4?

My LFS suggested I watch the coral beauty as well, but I've staked out the tank for several hours day and night and haven't seen much activity that way.

I used a Red Sea test kit.

meschaefer · #7 04/30/2007, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gawf4fun

I used a Red Sea test kit.

That's your problem... your phosphates are high.

gawf4fun · #8 04/30/2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by meschaefer
That is my first question.

Do you have any other Acros, and how are they doing.

I have several other acros including tri-color, a tort, digitata.

gawf4fun · #9 04/30/2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marko9
I love millis...

Thanks for the pic Mark, that's awesome. I'm salivating all over my keyboard. I have polyp envy...

gawf4fun · #10 04/30/2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by meschaefer
That's your problem... your phosphates are high.

Does the Red Sea kit show false readings then? I can take a sample to my LFS for verification.

What about toxins from my Sarcophyton or Colt Coral? I've read where they can stunt growth of other corals in a closed system.

joeycadre · #11 05/01/2007, 12:46 AM

red sea test kits aren't very accurate. go salifert or lamotte.

BONDQ · #12 05/01/2007, 12:57 AM

I would suggest a large amount of carbon to combat potential coral toxins.
It can also be helpful to run a Phosban reactor to prevent residual phosphate build-up from food, etc.

Do you think you have too great or too little light or waterflow on the Millis?

Just trying to consider all parameters, but I'd definitely test with Salifert PO4 kit.

Quote:

Originally posted by gawf4fun
Does the Red Sea kit show false readings then? I can take a sample to my LFS for verification.

What about toxins from my Sarcophyton or Colt Coral? I've read where they can stunt growth of other corals in a closed system.

mano1192 · #13 05/01/2007, 01:44 AM

I would lean towards phos as well, even a salifert test kit is not as good at testing as a deltec test kit is, my salifert reads 0 and deltec shows po4 still in the water. If u can afford it get a deltec kit.

gawf4fun · #14 05/01/2007, 02:17 AM

Thanks for the advice all. Going to take water sample to LFS tomorrow for PO4 test and have added carbon to sump flow. Hopefully we'll be back on track for polyp extension soon.

Mark

meschaefer · #15 05/01/2007, 07:40 AM

I havn't used the deltec test, but the red sea and salifert are worthless.

I doub't that your LFS is going to have a better test, although they could suprise me. Your best bet, unless you want to spend some $$ on a decent phosphate test, is to assume that it is high.

Do some water changes, and start using GFO (i.e. phosban, rowaphos, phosar.. etc.etc.).

Marko9 · #16 05/01/2007, 10:02 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by meschaefer
[B]I havn't used the deltec test, but the red sea and salifert are worthless.

I doub't that your LFS is going to have a better test, although they could suprise me. Your best bet, unless you want to spend some $$ on a decent phosphate test, is to assume that it is high.
[QUOTE]

My LFS just started carrying Elos test kits. They rock.

meschaefer · #17 05/01/2007, 10:12 AM

From my discussions with various people, the only really decent test kit for phosphates is the Hatch or a colorimeter. I have heard mixed reviews on the Deltec. I can only personally atest to the worthlessness of the Red Sea and the Salifert.

gawf4fun · #18 05/01/2007, 06:51 PM

So I had my water tested with a Hanna colorimeter at my local and it came in at .03. I've ordered a phosban reactor and a starter charge of phosban. This, in conjunction with some gravel vacuuming, and the carbon in the sump should take care of the issues hopefully. I appreciate all the help and will post polyp pics when they're back out and thriving. Thanks all.

Mark

meschaefer · #19 05/01/2007, 11:22 PM

.03 is pretty good.

GMAX · #20 05/02/2007, 11:07 AM

Yeah NSW is at least .01. If you got an accurate reading I would saeriously think about disconnecting the phosban reactor. A little nutrients in the tank makes for more colorful corals in my own unscientific opinion.

gawf4fun · #21 05/03/2007, 03:58 PM

So, if I understand the most recent posts, my PO4 level doesn't appear to be the problem, and as I've watched the coral beauty, he doesn't seem to be the problem...I'm back at square one. Anyone else have any ideas or direction to point me in about what could be causing this polyp recession?

delv · #22 05/03/2007, 05:09 PM

NSW PO4 level is at least .01???

Not on a reef. Not ever.

How fast does your glass "haze" up after you clean the glass...I think that's a better way to figure out relative phosphate (all types, not just inorganic) than any test kit made for hobbyists.

d.

GMAX · #23 05/03/2007, 05:21 PM

Really? Well I guess Randy Holmes Farley is just flat wrong then! I cut and paste from one of his articles:

Phosphate < 0.03 ppm 0.005 ppm

Now I admit I rounded to the nearest hundreth but his recommendation is anything less than .03 well above what I said

Quote:

Originally posted by delv
NSW PO4 level is at least .01???

Not on a reef. Not ever.

How fast does your glass "haze" up after you clean the glass...I think that's a better way to figure out relative phosphate (all types, not just inorganic) than any test kit made for hobbyists.

d.

delv · #24 05/03/2007, 05:56 PM

I think that top end is either an anomaly or a recommended level for your aquarium. I don't think total phosphates typically approach .03ppm (forget about inorganic...which is the only type any of these tests test for) on any of the ecosystems that millipora come from.
What type of phosphate did the article you cut and pasted from say it was?

d.

gawf4fun · #25 05/03/2007, 06:03 PM

I don't want to get in the way of your debate, but D, in answer to your question, I get small algae patches every other day.