Calling all lawyers/informed people.

[Rosseau]

A little advice would be helpful please!


I'm currently living in a rented student house with a few other students. I happen to be in charge of paying and managing our utility bills. This house is over 100 years old and the cold winters really blow through the energy.


My problem --> One of my housemates (former friend) has a large outstandind debt with me from the utilities and a large train ticket I bought for him in Europe last year.


--- I want to create a document simply stating that he acknowledges the said sum of money. I will sign it, he will sign it and perhaps a witness will sign it.


Any tips on how to make this legit so that it holds up in say small claims court or something along those lines, if it has to come to that


Thanks!! I'm sure you've all dealt with money from friends at some point in your lives, it's really not a good deal....

[oz]

I'm neither a lawyer nor informed. And this is not an advice but an opinion.

First draft something up in a way that you can quickly fill in the blanks/specific details.

Then I would ask him how and when he intends to pay for the money he owes you. Ask him to be specific.

Negotiate and once both of you agree. Pull out the draft, fill in the details. Both of you sign it. Ask one of the student to sign as a witness.

Do that and if it doesn't work come back to the lounge and we'll think of something. By hook or by crook, we'll get him to pay.

[Rosseau]

Thanks. I've been asking for specific details for a while and it's been non-stop excuses. This isn't going to guarantee me payment in the next week. However it will ensure that he can't run away...

The latest excuse was that he is waiting for his signing bonus from joining the army. This was the first time I had heard of him joining the army.


I can't possibly support reefkeeping and photography with outstanding debts like this!

I have a pretty large FW lobster in a 30 Gal right now... maybe i'll have to "cut him loose". Those pincers oughta get the message accross.

[UH_OH_5_OH]

Similar advice as oz however instead of another (with ties to either one of you) get an impartial third party to sign it. Such as a notary public ! I don't know if those exist north of the border !
I mean I'm sure they do...but I'm not sure if they are called the same thing but they serve the same purpose !

[dkh0331]

I've found that very good friends in very low places works well in these types of situations.

[oz]

If you can't get specifics out of him then just ask a yes no question such as "do you intend to pay me back ?".

Assuming the answer is yes, then pull out the draft get him to sign and acknowledge that a) he owes you whatever the amount is b) he agrees to pay you back.

And get one of the roomates to sign and witness.

Like you said, at least you'll have something should you have to take him to small claims court.

[oz]

I'm curious. How much money are we talking about ?

[Rosseau]

Originally posted by dkh0331
I've found that very good friends in very low places works well in these types of situations.

Is UH_OH in a low enough place?






Approx $3,000..... Partly my fault for letting it go this far. Some of it was however out of my hands... And i'm not including bar tabs or anything along those lines.

[Rosseau]

This guy has serious problems too, something we realized only after the lease agreement had been signed. The short of it includes pretending to be from Scotland (and thus speak with an accent and try to do all things Scottish) for 2.5 years. He convinced most people (I was not fooled) of this and eventually "came out" earlier this year.... I want my money before the guy jumps off of a bridge or something... err, did that sound mean?

[dkh0331]

Originally posted by Rosseau
Is UH_OH in a low enough place?
Ummmmm no. Altho there is a high probability that he may be acquainted with some of my lowly friends, since I grew up in IL.





Approx $3,000..... Partly my fault for letting it go this far. Some of it was however out of my hands... And i'm not including bar tabs or anything along those lines.

That's a lot of $$$'s for a college kid to be floating.

[Altpers0na-old]

experience is very expensive....

[oz]

$3000. I assume that's canadian dollars. I have no idea what the equivelence of that is in $US. In any case, that sounds like a lot.

Frankly, IME, its going to be difficult to get the full $3000 back. This week ? forget about it.

Get what you can NOW. Get part of it, next week and so forth.

What possesions does he has of value ? Take them as either collateral or cut your losses and get what you can get now and move on. live and learn.

[newty]

With today's rate, 3,000 smackaroos comes up to 2,587.77 dollas!

IMO, get something in writing and perhaps shortly therafter go straight to small claims court since he might bail out beforehand and it would be more difficult to get him to show up to court.

Shawn

[Nina51]

it doesn't sound like you have much of a chance of recouping your loss. that being said, you can draft a simple agreement with specific provisions for payments. i.e., he agrees to pay you $x.xx, on the first day of every week/month/whatever, until payment in full is satisfied.

as uh_oh said, this agreement should be signed in the presence of a notary public (or whatever you call them up there). don't bother with a witness, especially another roomie. not that it wouldn't hold up in court but if you ever get to the point where you need this person's testimony, it's hard to say where this person will be. your signature along with the debtor's signature, witnessed by a notary is all you need.

good luck.

[oz]

I dunno. If I was this guy, I may sign something saying I owe you money, etc. The minute you mention going to a notary public, forget about it, I ain't signing nothing. In fact, I may get upset and use the "What you don't trust me ? I'm insulted" routine. Then you have nothing but an expensive lesson.

[Nina51]

Originally posted by oz
I dunno. If I was this guy, I may sign something saying I owe you money, etc. The minute you mention going to a notary public, forget about it, I ain't signing nothing. In fact, I may get upset and use the "What you don't trust me ? I'm insulted" routine. Then you have nothing but an expensive lesson.

if two people sign an agreement and it goes to court, it's a useless piece of paper. deny, deny, deny. all it takes is for the debtor to deny signing and you have no proof that he did unless you want to go to the exhorbitant expense of hiring a forensics document examiner.

i have entered into numerous contracts when i have bought horses over the years. i do a contract as well as a bill of sale. i don't involve a notary. i have only ever had a problem one time. the seller neglected to tell me that the horse i was paying $3,000 for was a cribber. when i called him one day later and told him i intended to return the horse, he said he had already spent the money i paid him. i said fine, i will keep the horse until you gather up that $3,000 to give back to me. i gave him 30 days. on day 29, i called him and told him i had every intention of hiring an attorney. the next day, he was at my door with $3,000 cash and his horse trailer. i was lucky.

there are some things, such as livestock purchases, that you take a chance on. however, this person, in good faith, loaned another person $3,000. there were no goods exchanged. perhaps he was too trusting and this will end up being an expensive lesson but i would still not hesitate to involve a notary. as for the trust issue, i would also not hesitate to tell this person that yes, i need your signature notarized because you have not paid anything back and yes, i do not trust you as far as i can throw you!!!

[dkh0331]

Kneecaps. Think kneecaps.


j/k

[BLKTANG]

Cement shoes in the Delaware,work all the time.

[Nina51]

Originally posted by dkh0331
Kneecaps. Think kneecaps.


j/k

in my case, he woulda ended up with a horse's head in his bed.

[dkh0331]

Originally posted by Nina51
in my case, he woulda ended up with a horse's head in his bed.

Spoken like a true Italian.


PC Statement:
And no offense intended to those with Italian heritage.

[oz]

Well I have an idea. Place a Wanted ad in the Toronto Craiglist.

Wanted:

A knee cap breaker to collect a debt owed.


I bet you get many inquiries. Not sure if the ad should be placed under Accounting, Techinical Support or Skilled Trade.

[chinaman4u]

There is a statute of limitations, I am not a lawyer, but in US it would seem going to court after a debt is 3-6 years old is uncollectable, even if you have proof. I would get a promissary note in writing with a witness, then take him to court, under a court order, he would need to maintain payments to avoid an appearance before the judge. If you cant get him to sign a note, take him to court, though it is your word against his. He may not lie in front of the judge after swearing, then you will have proof the debt is valid.

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/rebu...itations.shtml

[Rosseau]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Statute of limitations will only start counting at the point when he is in a financial position to repay the debt - I believe. Either way, this isn't an old debt really, less than 2 years.


Does anybody know the show Kenny vs. Spenny?

Anyways, I entered his room today while he was in his 4th straight hour of playing online WWII games... the document has been signed and witnessed. I don't know when i'll get it, but I will.

In the meantime, maybe i'll have to start collecting collateral. Maybe i'll start with his keyboard, lol.. or just a few keys. Enough to mess things up anyways. Unfortunately he doesn't have many posessions, empty pizza boxes, half a bottle of whiskey and his girlfriend.

I'll keep the kneecap idea in mind

If you're still interested, here's a copy of the form I made up....


DEBT ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

Name, date etc here…


The undersigned hereby confirms and acknowledges to ****** (‘the Creditor’) that the undersigned is indebted to the Creditor in the amount of $3,222.58 CAD as of the date hereof, which amount is due and owing and includes all accrued interest and other permitted charges to date. We further acknowledge that there are no defenses to, or credits or rights of set-off as against said account balance and that the Creditor shall be authorized to enter a confession of judgment (where so allowed by law) against the undersigned for the amount of debt acknowledged to be due.


Signed this 28th day of March year 2007.


__________________________________ __________________________________
Debtor Creditor


In the presence of


____________________________________

Witness

[vallon]

Promissory note should be sufficient.

Statute of Limitations typically run on the day the debt is incurred, not when debtor is financially capable. At least, that's for New York, Nevada and California.

Or else, litigation would be through the roof on this. Lenders would argue debtors were never financially capable, and debtors would argue otherwise to get a shorter statute time.

[rustybucket145]

A little sign of crazyness and an eye twitch and a hint toward some nightime violence while he's asleep might just get him moving on this.

I understand you're trying to go about it the 'right' way but the fact is that you've been trying this for years now and nothing has happened.

Every once in a while in life you just have to put your foot up somebody's *** to make them realize that you are SERIOUS about an issue and you're not going to let it go away, and that it's about to get WAY worse on their end if they don't keep up their end of the bargin.

Just my thoughts but it seems like the guy has gotten comfortable blowing you off about this. Time to step it up a notch.