***Taking the trim off a tank ???***

SaveOurReefs · #1 09/13/2006, 03:25 PM

I have a 58g rr Oceanic tank...

That I would like to make look more like a trimless-euro style tank.

Structually I think it would be ok since the tank is designed without a centerbrace, and secondly, if one of the side seams were to start leaking I dont think that the trim would do a whole lot to keep it from leaking.

And then, I really dont know how bad the glass is cut under there so it might look really bad, but I figure if its that bad I could just take it to a glass shop to have the corners polished or something.

What do yall think ?!?!?!

SaveOurReefs · #2 09/13/2006, 04:38 PM

Anybody ?

marks.henry · #3 09/13/2006, 10:18 PM

The trim provides alot of structural support, there could not be enough silicone to hold the tank together without the trim.
Put it this way, the trim is under stress from the glass pushing outwards. This means the stress is being applied along the horizontal lengths of each bit of the trim. Kinda hard to explain...
Do you think you could take a piece of pvc tubing with a hand holding each end, pull it apart? Not likely! The trim is under the same kind of stress.
Then again i could be wrong, either way i hope it helps!

SaveOurReefs · #4 09/13/2006, 10:34 PM

Well I get you, but I still dont think its going to effect it too much structually, really my main concern is how it will look afterwards, I think I am going to go ahead and leave it on there, I was really wanting to see if anyone has done this before on an oceanic.

graveyardworm · #5 09/13/2006, 10:46 PM

The glass will bow ou significantly without the plastic rim. Far more than the manufacturer intended. While it may not happen right away, eventually the silicone will let go.

everl0ng · #6 09/13/2006, 11:23 PM

yeah i have a 10g spare that the trim broke off of, and it's a new tank. i tried using it as a QT, but as soon as i fillet it with water it leaked on all 4 corners. kind of a bummer.

nathan_unsane · #7 09/13/2006, 11:24 PM

silicone isn't even a solid compound... it has more of a rubbery consistency there for not giving any structural support....

taking off the plastic trim would be a very costly mistake....

Meisen · #8 09/13/2006, 11:55 PM

Agreed,

The plastic trim on most glass tanks is structural. Remove at your own risk! If you are serious about a euro-braced tank and willing to assume a (smaller) amount of risk, you can carefully remove the top brace (sometimes breaks the glass anyway) and brace it yourself with glass strips cut to fit (or a cutout glass frame but that will be very pricey). They can be siliconed in place and should be at least 2.5"-3" wide. Obviously this needs to be done with the tank empty otherwise the aforementioned bowing will ruin the tank and your new eurobraces. Do a search for more info, I think someone did this a while back.

Anyway, not sure why you would want to go to all that trouble and $$$ though considering your tank currently is intact and holds water. If you want a eurobraced 58, just go to glass cages. Probably cheaper than the cost of a new carpet.

SaveOurReefs · #9 09/14/2006, 01:03 AM

No I wanted a euro-looking tank like these...

http://www.meerwasserfotos.de/4image...88&mode=search

http://www.meerwasserfotos.de/4image...p?image_id=713

http://www.meerwasserfotos.de/4image...p?image_id=712

This is the new style of tanks, they make them like that, I know it all has to do with the thickness of the glass, and I have seen tanks with the same thickness of mine (3/8") go without any bracing. I know most of those tanks are black silicone, but its exactly the same just a diffrent color.

nathan_unsane · #10 09/14/2006, 01:16 AM

those tanks have a horizontal lip covering the entire top of the tank and most likely acrylic... GIVING SUPPORT!!!

they serve as the braces..

if you are so sure of your findings... let us know how they came out, but please try it on a tank with nothing more then water, and outside your house and see if it will hold for 2 weeks with no changes...

including measurment, bowing, or leaking...

SaveOurReefs · #11 09/14/2006, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nathan_unsane
those tanks have a horizontal lip covering the entire top of the tank and most likely acrylic... GIVING SUPPORT!!!

they serve as the braces..

if you are so sure of your findings... let us know how they came out, but please try it on a tank with nothing more then water, and outside your house and see if it will hold for 2 weeks with no changes...

including measurment, bowing, or leaking...

No those dont have any lips or anything, its just straight glass up, not acrylic.

Yeah I have allready stated that I have decided not to do this on my existing tank, theres to much at risk. Next tank I get will deff. be this style though. I have talked to glass cages about a 90g like this but its 600-700 for the tank alone.

lalc · #12 09/14/2006, 01:39 AM

In the first pic--it is acrylic and the front corners are bent, furthermore it is glued no just silicone
Cant tell in the second
Third pic’s glass tank and from my experience that is not black silicone but a form of adhesive that is baked on-They literally place the entire tank in a oven and heat to cure (not sure how hot but I would imagine that takes a few hr. at X temp)
Silicone is 70% flexible sealant 30% adhesive

nathan_unsane · #13 09/14/2006, 01:48 AM

like i said... before....

SaveOurReefs · #14 09/14/2006, 01:56 AM

lol, no dude its glass!, quit trying to say their not...

http://www.eloseurope.com/index.php?...mid=76&lang=en

"Black silicon sealed"
"Glass Tank : 80x50x50h cm (31,49 x 19,69 x 19,69 h inch.), capacity 200 lt. (53 gal)"

SaveOurReefs · #15 09/14/2006, 01:58 AM

I have seen this style of tanks in person before... Thats why I want one so bad!!!

nathan_unsane · #16 09/14/2006, 02:02 AM

i must be crazy... but that's not black silcone on the corners... it is a seprate bracing.. probaly glued or opoxy on...

do your own little test...

take 2 things of glass and go buy your most industrial strength silocone.... sick em together and couple days later pull them apart...

if you honestly think that it will hold? prove me wrong.....

silcone isn't ment to bind thigs but rather seal them....

i'm goin to bed...

good night all....

lalc · #17 09/14/2006, 02:04 AM

You are right thank you for correcting me. It is bent glass that being said why don’t you make your own?
Not trying to get into a slap fest just trying to help--LOL
Dude?

SaveOurReefs · #18 09/14/2006, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nathan_unsane
i must be crazy... but that's not black silcone on the corners... it is a seprate bracing.. probaly glued or opoxy on...

do your own little test...

take 2 things of glass and go buy your most industrial strength silocone.... sick em together and couple days later pull them apart...

if you honestly think that it will hold? prove me wrong.....

silcone isn't ment to bind thigs but rather seal them....

i'm goin to bed...

good night all....

wow lol, chill brother, I dont trust my own silicone jobs!, man this is why I dont post a whole lot on message boards... This is supposed to be fun, and like relaxing u know ?

But hey thanks for going to bed nathan lol. I didnt want this to turn into a slap fest either, thanks, I dont even want it to be an argument, but please trust me, like I said, I have seen these IN PERSON, I dont know why you dont want to believe me ? Is it because I am from Texas ???

Quote:

Originally posted by SaveOurReefs
I have seen this style of tanks in person before... Thats why I want one so bad!!!

and I was also trying to lighten it up with the

marks.henry · #19 09/14/2006, 04:41 AM

The glass tanks without any bracing are awesome. They look alot like the acrylic ones so its understandable that he got confused. We got a 100g glass tank without bracing a few weeks ago, here is a pic of it the day after everything was transfered from our 50g and new live rock added.

It seems that the black silicon is the sealent over whatever actually holds the joints together.

SaveOurReefs · #20 09/14/2006, 08:18 AM

That tank looks awsome, I am jelous

captbunzo · #21 09/18/2006, 03:53 PM

Those frameless tanks are awesome, SaveOurReefs. Truely the envy of me...

WinkeyWoneye · #22 09/18/2006, 04:05 PM

I dont think its a wise idea reguardless of what those tanks are...The diffrence..those tanks are built and designed that way, yours on the other hand was not. You are so quick to defend your position on the matter than why waste time in posting? Obviously no one else opinion matter much to you. So all I can say is try it, when the tank blows apart please post it up here so we can all give you a big " I TOLD YOU SO"
Be sure to include pics too, I want something visually stimulating to make me laugh my @%$ off when it happens. Tanks that have plastic trim were designed for the plastic trim to be a brace. Most euro-braced style tanks I have seen still have a small plastic trim around the outside, with glass running along the insides to eliminate a center brace.

captbunzo · #23 09/18/2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WinkeyWoneye
I dont think its a wise idea reguardless of what those tanks are...The diffrence..those tanks are built and designed that way, yours on the other hand was not. You are so quick to defend your position on the matter than why waste time in posting? Obviously no one else opinion matter much to you. So all I can say is try it, when the tank blows apart please post it up here so we can all give you a big " I TOLD YOU SO"
Be sure to include pics too, I want something visually stimulating to make me laugh my @%$ off when it happens. Tanks that have plastic trim were designed for the plastic trim to be a brace. Most euro-braced style tanks I have seen still have a small plastic trim around the outside, with glass running along the insides to eliminate a center brace.

That was the most disrespectful, uncivilized, and down right trashy post I have read around here in a long run, WinkeyWoneye.

SaveOurReefs came to the forum with a question. He referenced some tanks and then backed up his statements with facts that they WERE actually glass and silicone (the fancy european tanks). And then he let us know that he wasn't going to do it as he recognized the inherent risk.

In short, everything you said was not ONLY rude, but also incorrect. I believe you owe an apology both to SaveOurReefs, but also to this forum in general for your confrontation and insulting behavior.

Please sir, have some class.

WinkeyWoneye · #24 09/18/2006, 04:24 PM

OK, but usually when people post something, it is to see other peoples takes on the matter. But when you start bashing other peoples opinions that they were nice enough to give you in the first place, than whats the point in posting? Just my 2 cents disrespectful or not. I really hope Saveourreefs does not do this as I'm pretty sure it will be catastrophic results. Thats the point I'm tryin to get too. I'm sorry for being a jerk about it Saveourreefs but just trying to get you to really absorb what everyone around you is saying. I never said those tanks were not glass, what I did say was they are designed to be that way as your Oceanic was not. Those tanks do look very nice, but it almost looks to me as if the black on the sides is actually a plastic trim holding the corners together, rather than a black silicone. Silicone alone will not hold glass that is under severe pressure. If you dont believe me or anyone else above that stated the same, than try it I guess.

captbunzo · #25 09/18/2006, 04:33 PM

Thank you VERY much for responding so graciously, WinkeyWoneye.

If you read above carefully, I think you should be able to see that SaveOurReefs DID acknowledge that others were right and it was a bad idea to do this to to his tank. He was just trying to point out that it IS possible to build a tank that way. I really think that others were a bit difficult with him, not the other way around...

Anyways, I apologize if I was too harsh about this. And thank you again for your response here.