Is a Protein skimmer really necessary?

easye123 · #1 07/20/2006, 11:30 PM

Go head freak out if you want to... most of yall are "experts" and say a protein skimmer is a must...

but honestly if you do weekly 20 percent water changes and have a sump/regfuge is it really necessesary?

ste6168 · #2 07/20/2006, 11:31 PM

they are not NECESSARY, but they do help alot... i mean really after seeing what comes out of mine every day, i would never have a tank without one, HTH

Mike

physicslord · #3 07/20/2006, 11:38 PM

You ever read about the Smithsonian Aquarium, before they had a skimmer. The place was totally disgusting. Corals had to be replaced every few months because they would all die.
I think there's a long discussion in TRA about it. Just for a little history read that.

In a small tank you can either change the water more frequently or just add a skimmer. The skimmer will save you a lot of time in the long run and keep water quality more consistent.

Short Answer: yes.

mhltcob · #4 07/21/2006, 12:25 AM

Keeping good water quality with low levels of inorganics and yet adequate food sources for the organisms you intend to keep is absoloutily necessary. There are many ways to accomplish this.

nm354 · #5 07/21/2006, 12:25 AM

You will end up kicking yourself for not running one.

Aquabucket · #6 07/21/2006, 12:32 AM

It really depends on what you want to keep, your fish stocking levels & selection, and the size of your fuge among other things. With that said I have never had a skimmer on any of my systems.

If you want to learn more check out this thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=486097&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

mg426 · #7 07/21/2006, 02:20 AM

I use one An ASM g3. I dont feel in any way enough of an expert to try a reef without one. Everytime I dump the sludge it sure makes me wonder. Do I really want that in my tank.

McCrary · #8 07/21/2006, 03:06 AM

I can't see why people would run a tank without one, unless its just to see if they can do it.

SCR · #9 07/21/2006, 04:27 AM

The Ocean has it's own natural skimmer, why not us?

edwar050 · #10 07/21/2006, 04:44 AM

I agree with mhltcob. Think of the many nano's run without skimmers. I am an advocate of skimmer use, but I also believe in many methods of removing inorganics. If I didnt have one I would use alot of cheato, mangroves, carbon, and pads/socks.

As for running a tank without a skimmer, I dont see the point of it as well unless its a nano due to cost for a good skimmer.

Aquabucket · #11 07/21/2006, 05:19 AM

Just because some of you guys don't know the benifits of running a well balanced system without a skimmer does not mean that such systems don't have their advantages.

Eric Borneman: http://www.reefs.org/library/members...an_120898.html

More: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=423931&highlight=skimmerless
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=28110&highlight=skimmerless

Quite frankly my skimmerless tanks more often than not look cleaner and healthier than many skimmed tanks I have seen over the years. Go ahead and check out my gallery and judge for yourself.
http://www.reefcentral.com/gallery/s...=32290&thumb=1

HowardW · #12 07/21/2006, 05:53 AM

My view is if you have a smaller tank and are willing to do 20-40% water changes religiously on a frequent basis, and are not overstocked with fish or an otherwise heavy bioload, you can get away without using a skimmer.

Given a choice, I would always choose to use one though when I see what comes out of the collection cup every other day.

wayne in norway · #13 07/21/2006, 06:19 AM

Of course they're not necessary. They ar ehelpful tho' - weekly 20% on a 200 is an awful p.i.t.a.

Aquabucket · #14 07/21/2006, 06:26 AM

Thats the problem ~ many hobbyists are overstocked with fish and dislike doing water changes. As far as WCs go I hardly consider 10%-20% water changes every 2 weeks to be all that much of a task. Especially on smaller tanks like mine. Can anyone here argue against the positive effects we see in our tanks shortly after a water change whether you have a skimmer or not?

Many LPS corals and soft corals can benifit from an unskimmed system. Its all about choices. If you want to stock highly adaptive corals such as these a skimmer may not be needed. If you want stock large amounts of fish with loads of SPS and unforgiving acroporas then a skimmer is highly desired.

reefnewbie54321 · #15 07/21/2006, 06:28 AM

Not necessary but a safety net for busy people that cant constantly attend to thier tank. Some disadvantages include having to keep a very light bio-load as well. I had originally planned to go skimmerless but after realizing how many fish I wanted and what would have to be done to keep my system healthy I decided to take the easy way out and buy a skimmer

Aquabucket · #16 07/21/2006, 06:36 AM

The problem is what many consider to be a light bio-load in regard to fish in many cases such as mine are still pushing the recommended limits based on number and size of fish per gallon and available surface area for oxygen exchange. Right now I have 5 fish bringing in a total length of 12" in a 40 gallon breeder. Based on bench marks like the 1" per 5 gallon rule I am overstocked and should have 60 gallons of water for all these small fish. This does not even account for the 30-40lbs of LR in my tank. The fact is many hobbyists choose to overstock and rely on a skimmer to get away with it.

marinelife · #17 07/21/2006, 07:56 AM

The problem is you will get yelled at if you do not have a skimmer. If you ever have a problem with your tank that is the first thing they are going to tell you to get.

My take on the skimmer/skimmerless is, If you are new get one, if you have been doing this a while and have a mature tank or are taking in slow on a fresh start tank than you can go skimmerless. My history with skimmers has not been very good. my current tank was skimmerless for the first 4 years, then for some reason I added a skimmer, it did nothing to the tank so I upgraded it to a better one, still nothing, a few months after upgrading, I started getting algae and the tank started to look like crap. So I have once again removed the skimmer and will not add one back to this tank. Please note that I have 4 clams(1 really large one) and mostly acropora and Montipora corals. I also have large fish, see my site for the list

It is all about balance and finding what is right for your tank. You may need a skimmer you may not just all depends what you have in the tank and how slow you go.

NOTE: The author assumes no responsibility for any consequences that may arise from the use of this information.

pllb · #18 07/21/2006, 08:25 AM

I've always been skimmerless on my nanos without any problems but when I heard about nano remoras a few months back I told myself I would purchase one when they came out just as a safety net. I got it yesterday and it's already pulling brown sludge out like crazy. Not sure I'd want to be without one now lol.

Aquabucket · #19 07/21/2006, 08:49 AM

That just it ~ that brown sludge has concentrations of food and other organisms that can be benificial to many things we keep. Since my system is skimmerless I have no need to feed my corals, gorgonians, clams, etc... My macro algae helps break down the rest. Again its all about achieving a certain balance and concentrating more on whats going on inside your tank and not what accumulates in a skimmer cup.

pllb · #20 07/21/2006, 09:05 AM

Hey aquabucket I have always enjoyed your tanks..they always look incredible and I'm aware you can have a healthy tank without a skimmer and I also know skimmers do remove beneficial organisms but at the same time they also remove the not so beneficial (which can also be acheived in frequent w/c's). The ocean itself has a natural skimmer. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, a healthy reef depends upon the person caring for it.

Aquabucket · #21 07/21/2006, 09:25 AM

Thanks for the kind words pllb!

I keep hearing from posters here that the ocean heavily relies on a "natural occurring protein skimmer" for filtration. I have read some of the articles that foster these statements. What occurs in the ocean is hardly comparable to the foam fractitioners that hobbyists use in a closed system. The big difference being is that mechanized skimmers indiscriminately pull organics from the water column. What occurs in the ocean is the result of many other factors.

A great percentage of the organics that find their way into natural occurring reefs are consumed by living organisms and not by "natural protein skimming".

When I studied environmental science years ago at the university here in Green Bay the importance of estuaries full of seagrasses, mangroves, macro algae, etc... and their relation to the health of the worlds oceans and reefs was emphasized. Its these vanishing areas that threaten the world's reefs to an immeasurable extent. All the "natural protein skimming" in the world won't change that.

Silencer · #22 07/21/2006, 10:20 AM

I don't have a skimmer on my 7 month old 180g. Nitrite and Nitrate always test 0 and everything else is healthy, colorful and growing fast. In the stand I have a baffleless 125g sump/fuge with a small amount of rock and macro in it. I have not needed to take any macro out yet. The large sump/fuge also increases my water volume by a very significant amount, it probably doubles it, and this certainly doesn't hurt.

Another thing that I think helps is that I always keep in mind that my tank has essentially no export right now. I've stocked the tank slowly and have started with fish that are small and "clean". They don't need a lot of food and very little of the food that I put in goes uneaten. The only other maintanence I do is to add topoff every few days and clean the glass with a magfloat about once a week. I have not done a single water change on my tank.

Having said all of that I am currently building a skimmer to put on this tank. It doesn't need it right now but in the relatively near future I am planning to add a few larger and "dirtier" creatures to the tank (such as a Zebra Moray) and I feel this will upset the balance that the tank is currently enjoying. A skimmerless tank can be every bit as successful as any other tank if you know it's limitations, and knowing a tanks limitations is (IMO) the key to a successful tank of any type.

I will try to get a few updated pics of my tank later today....

Wryknow · #23 07/21/2006, 10:31 AM

Skimmerless tank design is clearly possible and it works when set up properly. You've got more room for error with a skimmer though!

stevedola · #24 07/21/2006, 10:49 AM

Aquabucket hit it on the head. a skimmer is not needed to sustain a high quality reef. plain and simple. Its all what you put in it...if you overstock and overfeed then you need more than just WCs to take the waste out.

mg426 · #25 07/21/2006, 12:14 PM

I agree that it can be done also. I have had great luck using one though. If its working for you dont change a thing. My stuff works for me so I am not changing a thing. I think in this hobby the (if it aint broke dont fix it Idea) goes a long way.