Thought on the guest peakers topic from the last meeting

[astrogazer]

I really got stuck on the no protein skimmer, and I know of many that do without it, but I get algae problems when I don't skim, mostly red slime. I'm running a sump and refugium w/miracle mud and macro algae, water parms, specifically phos and trates are barely perceptable, use only natural seawater for changes and trusted RO for topoff. Some have suggested that I let the system balance out w/o skimmer, I have left it for 30 days at a time in the past and the algae grows unchecked. Am I missing something???

[bawla47]

im not an expert on cyano, but i did read 1 writeup that is said to eraddicate it, and keep it away. ill try and look up what it was, but i remember you had to cover your tank completely to let absolutely no light whatsoever into the tank for 2 days. then it mighta been a water change, and then you needed to keep your nitrates at around 5 either by over feeding or dosing something with nitrate in it.


ill try and search on the exacts, but i read it worked for him,a nd alot of people tried it with sucess as well.

[Bullredchaser]

I would try a chemi-clean treatment and or try using a phosphate remover like Eco Phos,Rowaphos,or Phosban.What exactly is your phosphate level at?What kit are you testing with?

[astrogazer]

I have no detectable phosphates in this water, I use salifert and red sea test kits, I have virtually no detectable phosphates and/or nitrates. I have been to 2 LFS's to corroborate my results.

[ZURCSREEF]

chemi-clean for the win... works great..

[Rogger Castells]

Astro, If your algae problem is at the sand bed it is most likely lack of current in that area, try placing powerhead close to the sand and experiment with an angle that doesn't blow your sand away but keeps constant current right on top of it, with in a week you will start seeing the cyano dissapear and don't come back.

Hey how about a class on photography for all of us phototarded's in this upcoming meeting, i will bring my camera, I can't wait to find out what all the other 5 buttoms do!

[Dactyl]

i always thought the whole mud thing was a hoax. there was a guy in the LA group who used to call it his aiptasia refugium. ive never seen anyone with a highly successful tank using the mud. all the successful tanks ive seen use skimming and compliment it with macroalgae growth. some would even plumb it to a tank outside and grow the macro algae in the sun to make it grow faster and for free.

[JDT]

If I had been at the last meeting, my first question after his comment about no protein skimmer needed would have been why then do most of your new systems come with a protein skimmer.

I guess you can tell I am in agreement with the comment made by Dactyl. I know of several members of the club who have switched back to a regular wet dry because of the problems they started to have with that system after a year or two of use. If you still have doubts, if Tony Vargas is at the next meeting take some time and ask him, I know for a fact that he feels the same way!
JDT

[bawla47]

i did a little research, its bacteria in the bed helps a bit but the main benefit is it releases iron and a few other trace elements, that help excel the macro algaes growth. Its growth is what contributes to the tank, absorbing your nitrate and phosphate.




but i agree also, protein skimming is the way to go for most of us. only because we overpopulate our tanks, and overfeed.

the ecosystem is a great idea and probably would work decent with a very lightly populated tank.

what ive read works wonders though on nitrates, is if you can setup a bucket sand bed. you fill the bucket deep with sugar sized sand, and close it up completely not letting in any light, and have a good amount of water flow through it. Its brought down peoples nitrates considerably, and its very easy to setup.

[astrogazer]

I figured I would give it a try, the no skimming thing, but I just don't see it being the way for me. I'm trying to give it a little time to balance out, and it seems like it's holding steady at the moment. I don't have it on the sand bed, it's only on the LR, and really seems to favor my brain coral. Anyone use PhytoFeast, I'm near the end of my first bottle, tried it in place of DT's, wondering if this might be part of the problem.

[Bullredchaser]

JDT I dont know of anyone who is going back to wet dry's.Especially in the club.I've not met many people in the club running wet dry's on a reef system mostly Berlin set ups, refugiums,or a combination of both.Now there has been some new members that where sold wet dry's along with the infamous Berlin Skimmers but after a little education both end up in the garage collecting dust or in the garbage.[Quote]If I had been at the last meeting, my first question after his comment about no protein skimmer needed would have been why then do most of your new systems come with a protein skimmer.[Quote]The number one selling skimmer in the World is a Red Sea Berlin skimmer but that hardly make's it a good one.Infact I've never seen or heard of one that actually works but stores keep selling them.I say this to say just because most stores sell a product doesnt actually means it works or is the best for the customer.One of the most beautiful aquariums in the club belongs to Rogger Castells and it has no skimmer,refugium,mud,dsb,or wet dry.Just live rock with lot's of flow.But the Berlin master himself David Saxby owner of Deltec had his tank crash.Yet he was using what many would consider some of the best equipment money could buy.Personally I've found a skimmer with a refugium to be pretty hard to beat.But have seen some great reef tanks running on just a refugium mud system as well as a berlin set up with big skimmers running kalkwasser and filter socks.I think in the end good husbandry and a hobbyist that has the pulse of the tank is most important.

[Speckled Grouper]

I would never dream of not skimming, just by looking at the gunk in that skimmer cup.

I also use a filtersock in my new tank now, and it's dirty after just one day.

I have a mixture of Mineral Mud and Miracle mud in my refugium, but it's so little it probably won't make a difference either way.

Here is an interesting article about the analysis of Miracle Mud:

http://www.inlandreef.com/Testing/MManalysis.html

[Ludwigia73]

Greg in the PBMAS runs a bio-ball based filter, and he's got a spectacular tank. Don't get me wrong, I still believe bio-balls don't have a place in the reef aquarium, but he really makes it work.