Why are LFS prices so high?

[charles6299]

plus if you have a problem w/ the order, try sending back and all that crap.....the LFS is quick and easy and you know it gets done right !

[dhnguyen]

Originally posted by charles6299
everybody seems to be missing the point, we all will be sorry the day these chain pet stores and internet sales wipe out the LFS...then what are we left with ? 16 year old girls talking about their homecoming date and dumb jocks talking about their groin injury .....the point is service ! who helps you when you need it ? who do you ask questions to when your not sure ? if you don't support the LFS, then don't waist their time !

The caveat with what you're saying is that you're assuming all LFS have reliable employees. Sadly it has been my experience that most LFS have idiots working for them or worse the owners themselves even.

Giving bad advices is worse than not giving any at all.

Do you know how many times I have overheard LFS employees recommending a customer that they should use bio-balls because it is the latest thing in filtration?



D.

[poppin_fresh]

I agree with dhnguyen.

I was at a store last weekend (the best LFS ever, www.miltonminireef.com ) and they where taking care of a guys clown pair because another petstore told him they were ok to add to a week old tank. They said because he used cured LR and a bag of LS that his tank would be ready immediately for stocking!

Someone needs to be beeeaach slapped for that one!

[frags4u]

for your info from a pet store owners view. Some stores want to make it rich quick is why prices are so high and must of the get rich people are not in the hobby. Myself a marine freak and pet owner freak ingeneral only do a 40 percent mark up from what I pay for items. ACK YOU ARE TELLING SECRETS!!!! No not secrest just being honest I love the hobby and all pest and would love more to join. My main idea is a happy customer that enjoys hobby will return a un happy over charged customre is ****ED and will never return

My 2cents
Tom

[xrbzq]

Tom, could you come open a store in my area(too far to drive, the gas would kill me)!

[dhnguyen]

You're absolutely right tommckenna. Unfortunately it has been my epxerience there are far more "make it rich quick" type stores out there than not. Sadly this is only making it harder for consumers to trust the next store they walk into.


D.

[firefish2020]

"...if you don't support the LFS, then don't waist their time..."

No it dont bother me any sometimes we just get bored and need to talk

[toto]

ok..several things here.. LFS have several types of customers, the guy who knows NOTHING and admits it, this type of person is the one that you give him his options of filters, skimmers, etc and explain to him what each does and why he might choose it. you then have the guy that reads a couple of books, reads online and comes in and seems to know everything about s/w a person should ever need to know. well, thats the guy your not sure what to do with. you try and help him as much as you can and leave the rest up to him. then you have the guy who has no money to invest in the hobby, at least not for the stuff that will keep his fish alive like equipment, but somehow thinks he will be able to keep his livestock alive. go figure?? anyway, point is.... everyone seems to think that the LFS is some how out to get them, I AGREE that some LFS's are crooks. you get some of that in every business. but not all of us are bad. We do our best to steer people in the right direction. Like i said before, we have been in business for 12 years now and have also had some of the fish in our display tanks that long too. I would never tell someone to do something to their tank that i wouldnt do myself. We are also animal lovers, we have 4-s/w tanks at home and a dog. We do this because we love it. its not making us rich. one more thing.... in this hobby like every other hobby there are about 100 different ways to achieve the same results, (i.e. deep sand bed, bare bottom, plenum, refugium,bio balls, bio bale, bio wheels, fluidized beds, 100 differnet skimmers and pumps, power heads, and so on) everyone has their own opinion on what the best way is. and thats great..if its not broke ..dont fix it!! so... just because a store owner/employee gives advise to someone that you dont agree with, it doesnt mean its BAD advise, it just means YOU wouldnt have approached it in the same way. Earlier in this post someone stated that they would be willing to work/volunteer at their local store for r/o water and maybe some good deals on products....i think that would be a great idea for everyone to try (if you have the time). That way you might have a better understanding of the customer/LFS relationship. Seeing how a store operates from our point of view might help all hobbyists. I am by the way not being sarcastic, i really think it would help most people get a better perspective on what we do. just a thought!!

[toto]

sequencial.....i just re-read your suggestions again.....YOU ROCK!!
To bad your so far away. Your input is AWESOME!

[Sm0kin]

I believe you can have "BAD" advice being given. The use of a undergravel filter is bad advice sure it works but so does a daily water change. Just because it works does not mean it isn't bad. I have had good and bad experiences with LFS stores. The ones that specialize in sw aquariums seem to give good advice. General pet stores have not always been so trust worthy in my opinion. Great idea everyone should give it a try, working in a lfs. Just like working as a waiter or waitress it will give you a whole new outlook. "1 in 10 customers will complain the other 9 won't come back."

[toto]

LOL.....on the under gravel filter....you got me!!

[sequential]

Thanks, toto. If you have questions or would like to pick my brain in any way, don't hesitate to drop me a PM or an email - I'd be more than happy to share my thoughts.

Originally posted by charles6299
plus if you have a problem w/ the order, try sending back and all that crap.....the LFS is quick and easy and you know it gets done right !

I bought a few items I'd normally buy online from my LFS, for the sake of convenience. I called a couple of days later to confirm their return policy. One item was missing a piece ($25) and one item was simply not the item they sold me ($20). No livestock. No problem, with receipt. I went in my next available day, which happened to be a few days later, and "We're sorry, but our return policy is unopened items, within seven days. Since both of your items are opened, there's nothing we can do."

In the interest of remaining friendly, I gave them my items in exchange for 10 gallons of RO/DI water, which they reminded me over and over again, was a one shot deal.

Drs. Foster and Smith sent me the right items, which worked perfectly, but not on my tank due to some constraints, and they took it back a month later, without receipt. Sure, it cost me a few dollars in shipping, but the items were opened and used, no questions asked.

Return policies will favor the larger stores, almost without question. Petco, despite being an evil national chain, accepts returns on anything, even opened, used salt. (I witnessed it happen, as hard as it may be to believe.) Abusing return policies isn't exactly wise, but they give the consumer recourse against profit seeking resellers. Though many resellers are nice enough folk, don't think for a minute they ever want to give you your money back, even if it is in their best interest.

[toto]

hmmmm. thats a toughy. i suppose all stores have policies due to an "incident" with a customer. However, we have broken our policies MANY times over to make a customer happy. Most of our policies are to prevent people from abusing us. as far as the missing part is concerned..didnt they try to get you the right part? We had a customer the other day, that bought a light bulb, a 48" coralife 40 watt, on the way out to her car she dropped it...UGH. She came back in and we replaced it. (which is not our policy)Its a loss from a $$$ point of view (at least on that bulb) however, i think we did the right thing. We have a philosphy..... do unto others...meaning treat people how you want to be treated. it doesnt always work, but its worth a try.

[sequential]

didnt they try to get you the right part?

No. I've noticed a trend over the past decade where retailers treat potential customers like already convicted shop lifters. You know, where if the customer is in your store, they are there to steal. This goes double for anyone who dare return a product.

It's a sad development in retail, but not a surprising development in corporate America.

[toto]

hmm. being a small store, we can almost tell you exactly who came in and what they bought even on our busiest days. we cant always remember names (especially if their a new customer) but we remember faces very well. are you a regular customer to that store? did you ask them to try and get the stuff that would work on your tank? or had you already orderd from doc fosters?

[toto]

i know.....maybe you could print off this thread and give it to them to review. Maybe that would get their attention!! maybe??

[boodwah]

Originally posted by toto
i know.....maybe you could print off this thread and give it to them to review. Maybe that would get their attention!! maybe??

I think that LFS owners should read these boards on a regular basis. And I think the best ones do.

[firefish2020]

Earlier in this post someone stated that they would be willing to work/volunteer at their local store for r/o water and maybe some good deals on products....i think that would be a great idea for everyone to try (if you have the time).

Yep that works well and you may end up with dream system and a job in time. However customer service is something that you either have or dont have. I think the biggest problem is that most BIG LFS are hiring kids who have zero or next to zero knowledge about the hobby and just want a job. What they get is what they pay for. What they need is someone with experience in both the hobby and in retail sale. It sounds imposible but it can be done.

[JER-Z]

Originally posted by dhnguyen
You're absolutely right tommckenna. Unfortunately it has been my epxerience there are far more "make it rich quick" type stores out there than not. Sadly this is only making it harder for consumers to trust the next store they walk into.


D.

i agree, i recently had a LFS owner tell me that using a standard aquarium to make a DIY sump is a very bad idea. And that "After putting all that time and effort into it, you will probably just end up buying one because it never works right."

That was all he had to say, i headed straight for the door and never returned.

Fortunately, there is a good LFS close by that focuses on live stock and understands that people will use the internet for deals on dry goods. They never take it personally. And that makes me want to give them more of my business.

[BlackOnyx]

Just get a couple guys which huge basements and sell it outta there.

More fish would make it to established tanks then the trash can I bet.

[hotredjag]

Once again, Toto has hit the nail on the head. "Qualifying" customers is the trick. We as LFS, walk a line of not wanting to insult people and telling them "no, you can't put Nemo in a betta bowl" which happens once a week at least. Arguing with someone about their undergravel filter (that worked fine 15 years ago) for their new tank and not look like you are ripping them off for a new filter is a fine trick too. Toto and my store agree on 99.9% of our views, so we don't confuse too many people. We are 5 miles apart. I think it helps when LFS work together. The more I read about other fish stores on this thread, I wish you could all come to Wichita. Both Toto and our store probably talk more people OUT of buying a fish than we try to talk them INTO buying fish. We don't hire 16 year olds, our employees try to treat eveyone like they want to be treated. Toto's store is all saltwater and would compare to any first class store around. Seems like so many of you have had such bad experiences that I almost don't blame you for buying online. I guess I was judging by our two stores.
We take almost anything back I can return to our supplier. If it is trashed, they will return it to us. One quick story was a guy who brought a heater back and when asked how long had he had it and what was wrong with it, he said "Oh, a year or so, I just want my cash back for it, it works fine". Now tell me, what should we have done about that?
We bend over backwards to make customers happy. I know they are who pays my rent.

[dhnguyen]

If all the LFS were like Toto's and hotredjag's we wouldn't have this thread to begin with
Seems like the hobbiests in Wichita are lucky ones

[reefpeep2004]

Originally posted by hotredjag
The more I read, the more I think there are a lot of crummy fish stores out there. We do have a website, just to show our suppliers that we are more than 2 sw tanks in the back room. Suppliers are reluctant to even talk to people in Kansas thinking we are a giant wheatfield. Toto has a beautiful store, they really know their stuff and try very hard. I don't mind talking about my competition at all.

I lived in Wichita for years. Kansas IS a giant wheatfield Wichita is just a group of 250K people who happened to congregate around the construction on Hwy 54

[cfarrow2]

I think the important thing to realize is that we live in a free market economy. That means the market will eventually work itself out via competition. Competition is good for consumers. That's us. The smart lfs owners will find their niche in the market, as will the online stores. If you can find an RO system for $100 cheaper online, you'd be crazy not to buy it. On the other hand, why buy a $75 fish and have it shipped in a box overnight when you can buy it at your lfs for $125 and have it in your tank 20 minutes later? There's give and take in everything. Imo.

[hotredjag]

Wichita Population: 344284 in 2000
Only 2 fish only stores for hundreds of miles. I am from Los Angeles and love it here. No rush hour and nice people.