Using ball valves to regulate flow

ronbis · #1 01/25/2006, 10:56 AM

I just setup my new 75G with a closed loop circulation system. I am using an oceans motions 4-way valve. I am getting too much flow though. I want to have a shallow sand bed and it's blowing all over the place. I have ball valves on all my returns. Can I throttle back the flow using the ball valves without wearing the valves out?

SeanT · #2 01/25/2006, 11:00 AM

Yep.
You can also just place a ball valve on the output of your pump and throttle that one back.

wife no likey · #3 01/25/2006, 11:36 AM

you can also T off of the output and feed it back to the sump. with a gate/ball valve on both lines, you can regulate flow without restricting the pump.

pete

douggiestyle · #4 01/25/2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pennilessreefer
you can also T off of the output and feed it back to the sump. with a gate/ball valve on both lines, you can regulate flow without restricting the pump.

pete

ditto that, much better. suggest gate over ball valve. all my ball valves stick, but not gate valve.

Richard Talley · #5 01/25/2006, 01:02 PM

If you T off it would no longer be a closed loop. Make sure you don't restrict the flow to the pump as this could cause problems. Using a ball valve would work fine because you don't need to fine tune it like the return from the sump and ball valves are more readily available than gate valves.

wife no likey · #6 01/25/2006, 01:29 PM

oh sorry. .i missed that this was a CL. That should only be done for sump return.

Highlander · #7 01/25/2006, 01:33 PM

Do you mean that you have ball valves on the outlets from the OM 4 way?

If so, I don't think you want to create a back pressure on the OM by using these. Any imbalance, on the cylinder is liable to cause the OM to stick.

I would add the valve before the OM, or T it off as suggested but use to feed a surface return to aid in cooling, without causing too much turbulence in your sand bed.

wife no likey · #8 01/25/2006, 02:59 PM

also, what are you using for the outputs themselves? Increasing pipe diameter will maintain flow but decrease the velocity.

ronbis · #9 01/25/2006, 04:28 PM

Thanks for the replies people. I have already transfered my old 29G into the 75G, so I am trying to keep from major reconstruction.

My setup is this: 2" drain (yes that's rather large, but the inlet on the pump is 2") to a union valve to a sequence 3600seq12. 1 1/2" outlet of sequence to union to OM. OM outlets are 1" to union up to union and ball valve. Then reduced to 3/4" at bulkheads entering back of aquarium. Basically, one outlet in each corner of back wall of tank. I can post a picture when I get home tonight.

Inside the tank I had loc-line nozzles, but with all of the flow, switched to some temporary pvc tee's and 90's to split each outlet further. This is not too overpowering, but takes up lots of room. I plan on ordering some loc-line Y's to replace the pvc tee's.

And about backpressure and the OM. It's not rotating at the moment anyway. I bought the thing over a year ago, so it's the "old style" direct drive. When I had the initial sand storm, a small amount of sand passed through the OM and it got stuck, the plastic female portion of the driveshaft stripped... I'll be ordering the mag drive upgrade soon. Still, I understand the backpressure suggestion, and am wondering if I could just adjust the ball valves on the returns to balance the system. With the mag drive upgrade, I think that the sticking wouldn't be harmfull necessarily?

Penniless - I definitely noticed a decrease in velocity when I simply removed the loc-line nozzles, but I like being able to direct the flow, especially since I need to add about 40 pounds of live rock soon. I was wondering about using a 3/4" to 1" adapter and getting some of the 1" flex nozzles from OM.

I believe another option would be to purchase the "option 4" drum for the OM which opens 3 ports at once instead of 2 which I have now.

Seems like I have several choices. Anybody think one sounds better than the others or have any other ideas? I really appreciate the help. The one I don't want is to go bare bottom. I dig the look of sand and rocks!

Thanks again.

Richard Talley · #10 01/25/2006, 06:46 PM

This is how I plumbed my Om. this allows you to throttle back before the OM

Richard Talley · #11 01/25/2006, 06:54 PM

I also used 3/4" Y loc lines works well for me but then again each one of my zone's has two outlets or a total of four at all times. I hope that is understandable.

douggiestyle · #12 01/25/2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by douggiestyle
ditto that, much better. suggest gate over ball valve. all my ball valves stick, but not gate valve.

doh

would still recomend a gate valve. i hate ball valves. but yeah ball valves are cheaper too.

BeanAnimal · #13 01/25/2006, 11:58 PM

I would not restrict the flow. As others have suggested, you should use larger dia outputs, or more of them. MY OM is plumbed via a very clean manifold that branches into 8 outputs on the back edge of my 75. The loc-line nozzles only go underwater enough to keep them from pulling air in with the flow.

In other words if you put some thought into your design, you will be able to get it to fit, and not take up to much room.

Bean

tinygiants · #14 01/26/2006, 12:23 AM

If you must tune the flow, I use a recirc loop. I install a T off of the pump outlet. On either side of the T I installed a ball valve (gates are better, but not an absolute necessity).

One side of the T goes to my destination. The other goes to my pump intake. This allows me to throttle the output while never creating a backpressure on the pump.

Dale

ronbis · #15 01/26/2006, 09:16 AM

One major problem a lack of space. This is housed in the stand of my 75G. The OM sits on top of the pump which leaves little room to add anything between the pump and the OM such as a recirc line.
I was considering making an orifice plate (such as a washer) to insert into the union. Has anyone done this?

I talked on the phone yesterday with Paul at OM, he's very helpful and friendly. He recommended using a dremel and routing out an additional hole in the drum opposite the opening already there. I may go that route, but I'm not too happy with the OM 4-way. I got like one grain of sand in it again and it bound up after tring to repair the stripped shaft. It's not too convenient to keep taking it apart and cleaning it. I think I will start a post about sand and OM"s to see if anyone else has this problem.

-Ron

tinygiants · #16 01/26/2006, 11:30 PM

Restricting the pump with undue amounts of back pressure is a sure way to induce early failure.

Just My Opinnion
Dale

BeanAnimal · #17 01/26/2006, 11:59 PM

If the sand is causing it to bind up, then you may want to take some sandpaper and take a slight bit of material off of the drum circumference. This will allow a bit of bypassing (not a problem in your case) and keep the sand from wedging the drum.

Paul is one of the most helpful people you could purchase a product from. If you not happy, he will likely take the OM back rather than have an unhappy customer.

The product is great and works better than anything else I have seen. I do have to take my squirt apart about once every other month and put a dab of silicone grease on the drums wear surface. I have a maroon clown that creates a sandstorm every night.

Bean

ronbis · #18 01/31/2006, 11:39 AM

-Bean

Do you have a mag-drive or direct-drive?

Right now I have the drum removed, so the 4-way is just a header. I am going to check the fit of the drum one more time per Paul at OM and possibly get a new drum that's smaller in diameter. Right now I'm trying to let my everything stabilize in it's new environment. I don't have much, as I live in the middle of nowhere... Soon to be stocking up though!

-Ron
-Ron