Deltec AP600 Skimmer For Sale

[prop-frags]

I'm upgrading to a 180g display tank.
The AP600 will probably do OK for a while, but once the new tank starts to grow in, I'll likely need some additional FF horsepower. So, I'll let the AP600 go. It's pretty much new.. maybe 8 wks old. Lemme know if you're ready for a kick-butt skimmer.

[commabc]

how much?

[bblundell]

How much do you want for it?

[prop-frags]

$480

[rufio173]

That's a very fair price...

Peace,
John H.

[JMBoehling]

Originally posted by rufio173
That's a very fair price...

Peace,
John H.

Yep.. If I didn't already own one I'd snatch it up from Mike right now! These skimmers are awesome

Jim

[ade]

I would like to see a Euro-reef and a Deltec have a skim-off.
Has anyone in Richmond done that yet.

[JMBoehling]

Originally posted by ade
I would like to see a Euro-reef and a Deltec have a skim-off.
Has anyone in Richmond done that yet.

Not yet. Give me a Euro-reef and I'd be happy to give everyone the results

[ade]

What size deltec do you have?

[JMBoehling]

Originally posted by ade
What size deltec do you have?

AP600

[ade]

I was looking at the APF600 but for the price I can get a larger Euroreef. I would like to see the both of them work on the same tank with the same bio load.

[kentrob11]

It's really going to come down to the pumps. That is, if you compare the recirculating model of the Euroreef to the Deltec. I started building these things a while back and I've got 3 AP600 sized skimmers almost done. I'm going to run all 3 on my system for a week and see what the final word is on this. One will have a Sedra 5000, one will have an Eheim 1260 and the last will have a Gen-X 2400. I'm looking forward to putting the needlewheel pump arguments to rest with some actual data to back it up with! I'm really hoping that the Gen-X does well since it's cheaper!

[rufio173]

kentrob,

Is the Eheim 1260 the one with the H&S/Deltec style pinwheel or the OR 3700 type needlewheel or is it just a plain impeller?

If it is the Eheim 1260 with H&S/Deltec style pinwheel, did you get it from finsreef for 300 dollars? That's the cheapest place that I've found. I know you can get a needlewheel Eheim 1260 from customaquatics that uses the same needlewheel as the OR 3700, and is much cheaper, but supposedly inferior to the actual pinwheel design.

Peace,
John H.

[kentrob11]

I haven't really thought about the source for thr Eheim needlewheel yet- The problem I have with this whole thing is that while the Eheim are strong, reliable, long lasting pumps, I can't see anything so innovating there that would make them so much more effective than the Sedras with a nearly identical needlewheel design. The real debate in my opinion is the difference in effectiveness between the difference styles of needlewheels. If I could test them all on the same pump I would love to! The three main designs seem to be the Ocean runner, Sedra/eheim, and Gen-X (which is similar to the Oceanrunner but different enough in price to make a viable test option). I'll make a decision on the Eheim when the time to buy and test comes closer but I probably will go ahead and get the Deltec style pump to prove some things once and for all. In my opinion, there are wayyyyyy to many debates full of opinions without any solid, test bed based proof to give anyone a real idea of which design is the most effective.

[rufio173]

Hey ken,

Anecdotally, the sedra 9000s pull in roughly half the amount of air as the eheim 1260s (450lph vs. roughly 900lph) so a significant different. I think it would be somewhat unfair to pit the sedra 5000 against the H&S eheim 1260. I think the sedra 9000 would probably be a better opponent and even then, I expect there to be quite the difference in performance.

My hope is the Gen-X will perform well as well and I'm looking forward to your results... how long do you think it will take.... 6 months? Also, how will you be designing the study. Will they all be recirc. models and will they be fed the same source water at the same rate?

Peace,
John H.

[kentrob11]

I agree on the Eheim...I with thinking of doing the aquabee instead since it's roughly 500gph... Another thing I was going to do was try different airline thicknesses....It will probably be 3 months or so before I will run this. They will all be recirculating and run out of the same source of water....same water level inside the skimmers as well. Should be pretty well controlled...

[Charlie Davidson]

ME TOO!!! I believe it unfair for sedra to compair it to a gen-x

[kentrob11]

Well, here is my current train of thought- I think the Eheim is going to reign supreme but the question is whether the $250 in extra cost is justified by the performance increase over say, the Gen-X. If you can get 80% of the performance of the Eheim with a Gen-x 2400 at less than 20% of the price, then we have a very viable option. The same applies to the Gen-x vs Sedra, which I hope will be significanlt closer in numbers/performance. I also want to show with accurate numbers how the amount of air drawn in directly relates to the amount of skimmate that is pulled out by each. I'll do that using weight as the method of measure unless someone else has a better idea. I'll measure the weight of the cups alone then at the end of the testing period I'll remove the cups and weigh each again to determine how much each pulled out. I plan on running all three skimmers rather dry....Any suggestions?

[rufio173]

I think to keep things fair, you'll have to feed everything from the same pump, use some PVC to divert it three ways to each skimmer and then add ballvalves to control flowrate and then calculate flow rate through each skimmer.

If you don't want to do this then, you should use three pumps of the same size and place them equidistant from the drain pipe from the display.

Also, if using the aquabee vs. the sedra 5000, you will probably be looking at using the AF2001 which burns 38 watts, but delivers roughly 600lph (even at that level, you'd be trumping the sedra 9000 in terms of air injection).

One more thing, even if you kept the water levels the same, you'd almost always get more skimmate production from the pump that produces more bubbles (since this will force the foam column higher and faster), so it is really going to hard to objectively state which pump pulls out more skimmate in any meaningful sense. In the end, given that all water levels are the same the pump with the highest air intake, would most likely give you the most skimmate, albeit, probably not as condensed. One way you can better weigh the skimmate is to buy a bunch of cheap bowls, and drop the skimmate as well as all the skimmate crud that builds up on the sidewalls into them every week with a fan blowing over everything and then weigh the dry weight of the skimmate after all moisture has evaporated. Do this for about a month, with one weighing every week to make sure the results are repeatable.

Also, feed heavily or keep the bioload high so that no skimmer ever shuts down another (although this might demonstrate superiority in performance, you won't get any quantities of skimmate).

Wow, that was a mouthful, but I'm sure you get my drift... there are also a lot of other tiny details, like which venturis will you use, how, where will the pumps be placed? Also, you might even consider measuring bubble sizes. Take a picture from each skimmer at some equal distance from each, zoom in to the same level and measure like the size of 100 bubbles in each skimmer and then take the average and that should give you a decent number on the size of the bubbles.

Looking forward to the results whether you take into consideration my suggestions or not.

Peace,
John H.

[kentrob11]

All very valid considerations for sure! What I planned on doing was line the skimmers up next to eachother and feed each with their own maxijet 1200. The maxijets would be placed in the same tank return chamber therefore drawing from the exact same return water. The skimmer outlets will empty directly into the final chamber where the tank return pump is plumbed, making it impossible for any skimmed water to make its way back into the chamber with the skimmer feed pumps. I'll start with the water level inside the skimmers as low as the T fitting allows. The venturis will all be PVC that I have made in the past and proven to work well. I'll use 3/8" tubing on all of the venturis with guest ball valves to throttle all 3 pumps back just enough to prevent cavitation and go from there. At that point, I'll measure air pulled in by each, and let them run for a week.

For the next week, I'll close the air valves by about 25% and do it again. Any more ideas?

[kentrob11]

Also, if using the aquabee vs. the sedra 5000, you will probably be looking at using the AF2001 which burns 38 watts, but delivers roughly 600lph (even at that level, you'd be trumping the sedra 9000 in terms of air injection).

hmmm...Do you ever wonder how it is that this pump can pull in so much more air than the Sedra 9000? That's something else that I would like to find out. Did those numbers come from the Deltec site?

[1diverdown]

hi Ken,

interesting study. one thing before you begin, which may make your life easier (and certainly save you money), is to not try and hook up the Eheim to an AP600 copy, assuming that the dimensions are identical. you'll turn your skimmer into a geyser, and make a huge mess. if you can find an AquaBee 2000 that would be ideal, as that is the pump that is correctly matched to the AP600 body/neck size.

hth
Doug

[kentrob11]

I agree and I think that's the route I'm going to go to start out with. I would love to do the same with a Sedra 9000, Gen-X 4100, an ocean runner 3700 and an Eheim with a trio of 8" x 30" skimmers but it will be another 6 months or so before I do that. I would rather have buyers lined up for the skimmers before I do it so I'm not stuck with 3 big skimmers afterwards. I'll already have a Deltec AP1003 clone running as it is(without the Eheims of course)

[Bass Master]

Isn't that skimmer rated up to 300 gal?

[Bass Master]

sorry - 200. 130 heavily stocked