Shipping 'damp'

[oligotrophic]

Hi Eric,

I just read your article on transport of Acros/Pocillos using the "damp" method.

I have a question on the paper towel used - would the chemicals used in manufacturing the paper towel stress the Acro? Do you wrap the paper towel closely around the Acro or you leave an air gap?

In the article, there was a mention of having the ambient air moistened to 100%, how do you do that? Letting go a fine jet spray of SW over the styrofoam box during packaging of Acro and just before sealing the box? Do you still tie a bag around the Acro or just let them sit next to each other in the box?

Another question, (sorry so many of them) - on the shipping of Acros that have been stressed by mechanical injury (polyps scrapped off) during collection i.e. a scrape here and there on the branches e.g. Pocillos, do these mechanically injured Acros still do well being shipped "damp"? Inside a holding tank I notice that they excrete slime on the injured section, this slime coated area seem to later affect neighbouring branches that are healthy. Perhaps shipping "damp" would avoid the escalation of slime excretion? or could getting exposed to air trigger a quick bacterial infection over the mechanically injured area?

On certain Acros that have suffered heavy stress, now centrally bleaching, can they still survive the journey packed with damp paper towels? I notice with wet submerged the chance of success is low.

Certain Acros species typically excrete very thick smelling "Terpene" and quickly foul up the water bag, would shipping "damp" in your opinion be an alternative that perhaps is of better success for such Acros than shipping wet submerged?

I have observed mortality during wet shipment, sometimes the Acro makes it but the nice accompanying stuff like the commensal crabs don't, I suspect either excessive slime buildup or continuos vibration during the journey caused the mortality.

Last question: I have had success maintaining cold temperature over water filled bags, and I have been doing this without any ice inside the styrofoam boxes, instead I air-condition the external of the styrofoam boxes. But if now without the water in the bags, should I place small pieces of ice inside the styrofoam boxes to maintain low temperature for the Acros?

Thanks in advance, Eric.

[EricHugo]

Wow...lots of questions, some of which I cannot completely answer as I have mentioned that we really need large scale trials to really work on the specifics and variations and offered what I have experienced and the experiences of others who have done this.


>>I just read your article on transport of Acros/Pocillos using the "damp" method.

I have a question on the paper towel used - would the chemicals used in manufacturing the paper towel stress the Acro? Do you wrap the paper towel closely around the Acro or you leave an air gap?<<

I should have mentioned this. Obviously, the purer the paper the better - dioxin of chlorine bleached, patterned with dyes, and scented paper towels are less preferable, although I have used the latter in a pinch in the field where nothing else was available. I particularly like the unbleached cheap lab paper towels typcially found in restrooms..the brown ones. They are less abrasive and flimsy and tend to nicely fit in and around branching specimens. I do wrap closely, but not tightly, and the one case that I had problems with I probably overwrapped using many layers rather than just enoguh to keep the surface moist and allow good gas exchange.

>>In the article, there was a mention of having the ambient air moistened to 100%, how do you do that? <<

No, no. If you seal a wet towel in a ZiplocK, you have created a nearly or totally 100% environment. This is how you can create humidification chambers. Doesn't take much evap in a small air volume to get 100% humidity. Th Ziplock with some air in it allows the real "padding" from adjacent specimens, and there is little chance of bag rupture since the specimen's sharp edges or wrapped in the paper.

>>Letting go a fine jet spray of SW over the styrofoam box during packaging of Acro and just before sealing the box? Do you still tie a bag around the Acro or just let them sit next to each other in the box?<<

Yes, bag is used, for sure...or, I have used cheap tupperware lunch contianers. These provide even better mechanical protection.

>>Another question, (sorry so many of them) - on the shipping of Acros that have been stressed by mechanical injury (polyps scrapped off) during collection i.e. a scrape here and there on the branches e.g. Pocillos, do these mechanically injured Acros still do well being shipped "damp"?<<

Yes, although as I mentioned with the sesitive Caribbean Acros and any sensitive shipping corals, I would recommend a period of healing prior to shipping. I have found that corals that have completely healed ship almost as though they are completely unaffected by the transport.

>> Inside a holding tank I notice that they excrete slime on the injured section, this slime coated area seem to later affect neighbouring branches that are healthy. Perhaps shipping "damp" would avoid the escalation of slime excretion? <<

For sure, and the absorbent paper acts to take this up and keep it localized rather than bathing the whole colony in it.

>>or could getting exposed to air trigger a quick bacterial infection over the mechanically injured area?<<

On the contrary, bacteria are less likely to colonize the coral because the mucus production shuts down to a large degree as the polyps retract and sort of "shut down" during transport.

>On certain Acros that have suffered heavy stress, now centrally bleaching, can they still survive the journey packed with damp paper towels? I notice with wet submerged the chance of success is low.<<

I don't know..have not tried this.

>>Certain Acros species typically excrete very thick smelling "Terpene" and quickly foul up the water bag, would shipping "damp" in your opinion be an alternative that perhaps is of better success for such Acros than shipping wet submerged?<<

It is my guy feeling that these are esecially the ones most likely to do better using this method, but again, more trials are needed. fwiw, these are probaly not terpenes but DMS.

>>I have observed mortality during wet shipment, sometimes the Acro makes it but the nice accompanying stuff like the commensal crabs don't, I suspect either excessive slime buildup or continuos vibration during the journey caused the mortality.<<

Or lack of oxygen. The crabs probably require more O2 than the coral, which in my articles have been shown to be hypoxia tolerant for a certain length of time.

>>Last question: I have had success maintaining cold temperature over water filled bags, and I have been doing this without any ice inside the styrofoam boxes, instead I air-condition the external of the styrofoam boxes. But if now without the water in the bags, should I place small pieces of ice inside the styrofoam boxes to maintain low temperature for the Acros?<<

Not sure. I suggest you get some of the cheap temperature loggers tht are available from food shipping industries and throw one in the boxes. I'd love to see the data once you get the loggers back. I can provide links for you if you do not find them easily on google. They only cost about 4-5 bucks each, and IMO, well worth the data in the scheme of shipping valuable livestock till we have a very clear idea of what happens during various shipping regimes.

[oligotrophic]

Hi Eric,

I was wondering, would it be any good to inflate the bags with O2 gas? A couple of years ago, there was an LFS that claimed the scientific community used pure O2 as a prevention against bacterial spread during damp transportation, any truth in this claim?

Thanks

[EricHugo]

Why would oxygen be antibacterial except through the production of ROS which are damaging to all cells? If you get more details, I can probably think about it more thoroughly.

[Chrismo]

Also, I would guess that filling shipping bags with pure O2 would make the corals a shipping hazard, being that O2 is very flammable?


Are there any exporters experimenting with this damp shipping yet?

[EricHugo]

Ah...good point. TSA, the media, or the administration could construe these as little bombs and this would be very bad for anyone who lives in Montana or is a practicing Muslim or believes in evolution. Everyone else would probably get their shipments

PS> I corrected the plethora of typos in my long post above. I must have been more tired than usual.

[SERVO]

Originally posted by EricHugo
Why would oxygen be antibacterial except through the production of ROS which are damaging to all cells? If you get more details, I can probably think about it more thoroughly.

Hey Eric,

When you say ROS do you mean free radicals?

[EricHugo]

yes - reactive oxygen species

[oligotrophic]

Thanks Eric, unfortunately I do not have any data on that LFS's claim on the usage of pure O2 just the piece of hearsay from him. It sound ed untested, hard evidence required, you are right.

In the next shipment (in a month's time), I'll be selectively shipping damp. Likely the larger pieces will go damp, or I might as well just make all of them damp. Still looking around for some suitable paper material. I've seen a case where the shipper used wet newspaper bec. the colony was very large to fit in any plastic bag, and the colony arrived just fine (as if it was a low tide evening for the Acro ) The receipient had to peel off pieces of paper that became stuck to the Acro, it looked pale, but it survived the trip. A check on the next few days confirmed the survival.

I noticed something from the last shipment. For some reason I had a few colonies re-opened from their plastic bags just before storage into the styrofoams and noticed they were very pale, one piece was beyond recognition as the colors looked totally different just minutes ago. It made me suspect that the very closed up environment had profound effects on the Acro's condition as well as the slime build up during packing.

Thanks for editing the post. Been very glad to read your article, I need a break from seeing mortality, actually more so the Acros and the commensal critters.

I'll post pictures and results, say in a month's time when the shipment is confirmed.

[Masoch]

Hi Eric,

One more quick question.

How do you acclimate a "dry" coral? Drip your tank's water onto the paper towel?

Thanks for the wonderful article!

[EricHugo]

Stick it in the tank. Hopefully a quarantine tank, but since there is no water chemistry difference, no acclimation needs unless there are temperature issues and tha is usually largely completely by room temperature. Another nice benefit. no pH drops, ammonia, oxygen, etc issues.

[nursefry]

I used Scotts brand roll toweling like they use in those auto dispensers. You can make the sheet as big as you need and in the few shipments i have sent so far.... I have had zero losses. Thanks Eric , great idea

[Masoch]

Thanks Eric!

Now I wonder if my local LFS is going to think I'm nuts when I show up with paper towels ...

[EricHugo]

Wonderful news! Keep the reports coming in. Now, I'm not expecting that zero mortality will continue. We are, after all, taking marine animals out of the ocean and putting them in boxes and shipping them all over the world. What I hope results is reduced mortality and the benefit of reduced costs, as well.

[oligotrophic]

Hi Eric,

Sorry I forgot to ask on the time duration factor:

my shipment will likely take betw 5-7 hours. 7 being totally out of the ordinary timeframe, say if something bad happens during transportation. Would that time frame of 5-7 hrs be acceptable based on your experience?

[Masoch]

And I forgot I owed you another thank you -- from an earlier article, I read about mounting frags on their sides. Lo and behold, a few weeks ago, I knocked a branch off a montipora digita. I split it into 1" frags, and tied each to some base rock. Now, they have completely encrusted the fishing line, are working on covering their rocks, and have started growing up! They're much better looking than the twigs I see mounted on rose plugs.

Thank you again for your articles

[SERVO]

Originally posted by EricHugo
Wonderful news! Keep the reports coming in. Now, I'm not expecting that zero mortality will continue. We are, after all, taking marine animals out of the ocean and putting them in boxes and shipping them all over the world. What I hope results is reduced mortality and the benefit of reduced costs, as well.

Oh come on Eric,

You know that if this becomes the best way to ship Acro's that the prices will be unchanged while the stores have increased profits!

The beneficiaries are the corals (two thumbs up) and the LFS.

In all seriousness, if this potentially increases the viability of wild colonies, what do you think will happen with some of these astronomical prices on "limited edition" frags and other tank propagated animals? Curious....

[EricHugo]

Really, I think that profits would increase, but the overall price would drop...and that would be good for everyone...but like you said, that is no concern of mine either....its mostly maximizing survival of a harsh process.