cloudy water - help!!!

lovetoreef · #1 09/20/2005, 08:33 AM

for the past 7 days, my tank water has gotten progressively cloudier - it is not like particles floating in the water, more like milky water - the tank is a 92 gallon system with a lifereef skimmer (pulling crap out) - been setup for 3 weeks now - livestock and rocks and water came from a previous setup -

the only changes were that i started adding reefcomplete (calcium and alkalinity doser) and have been using my well water as top off - i ran the water through the ro system though, so, it should be fine - any ideas on what could be causing this - the water is not cloudy when i mix it up - i did a 25 gallon water change on sat. and sunday (10 and then 15) hoping that would help, but it looks to have made it worse??? i will post test results on the water in a bit - thanks

gm

cshenderson · #2 09/20/2005, 09:14 AM

use some activated carbon and see if that helps

lovetoreef · #3 09/20/2005, 09:16 AM

okay here are the test results ...

dKh 8.8
calcium 350
ph 7.7 (uh oh - how do i fix this??)
phosphates - .03
nitrates - not detectable

so, i know i need to bring my ph up - guess i will just add some dKh buffer and that should fix that - but, i am not seeing anything that would cause the water to get cloudy like it is - i think i am going to try making some water using the city water run through the ro/di and then see if that helps - any ideas???

NeilPearson · #4 09/20/2005, 10:02 AM

How much reefcomplete are you adding? Is that a 2 part additive? Does it have a list of what it is chemically? My first thought was that it might be precipitating out but with your water parameters that doesn't seem likely.... but depending on what is in reefcomplete, who knows. It might be possible.

With a high alkalinity like that, the low pH would point to a CO2 problem. Can you get more oxygen to the tank?

It could be a bacteria bloom too, which might also explain the high CO2

lovetoreef · #5 09/20/2005, 10:38 AM

well, the alkalinity is not that high - it is the KH value expressed as dKH - normal seawater is around 8 and most aquariums are around 9 - now the alkalinity expressed as meq/L is usually 2.9, but my value is listed as the dKH --

the bottles lists the ingredients as calcium, magnesium and strontium - it is not a 2 part additive but rather a single bottle - i don't think it is precipitating out as the cloudiness worsened following the 25 gallon water change i did over the weekend - i would have thought it would have improved if nothing else - instead, it has gradually worsened ??

NeilPearson · #6 09/20/2005, 01:06 PM

I didn't mean to imply that the alkalinity was too high. I just meant that it is high enough that it should be stabilizing the pH.

This additive shouldn't raise alkalinity.

Have you been able to check the TDS of the top off water? This sounds like a bacterial bloom that is driving down oxygen causing low pH and water cloudiness. It could be the top off water is adding something that is fueling this bacteria.

It is a young tank (even though it was from an established tank) and if it is a bactera, the bacteria could just crash and it may clear up on its own.

lovetoreef · #7 09/21/2005, 12:12 PM

sorry, neil didn't mean to come across accusational -

the ro/di system i have comes with a tds meter - it was reading between 0-2 on average - now, i was using well water, so, it could be the source of the bacterial/algae bloom - not sure - i have since stopped using the well water and switched to city water - maybe i will get lucky and it will clear up on its own!

gm

Poolrad · #8 09/21/2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lovetoreef
well, the alkalinity is not that high - it is the KH value expressed as dKH - normal seawater is around 8 and most aquariums are around 9 - now the alkalinity expressed as meq/L is usually 2.9, but my value is listed as the dKH --

the bottles lists the ingredients as calcium, magnesium and strontium - it is not a 2 part additive but rather a single bottle - i don't think it is precipitating out as the cloudiness worsened following the 25 gallon water change i did over the weekend - i would have thought it would have improved if nothing else - instead, it has gradually worsened ??

NSW is 7.0, and yeah some people keep 9-12 but this high of level requires more maintence.. I try to stick with the norms around 7-7.5...

How old is your tank? What kind of bio-load do you have in it?

lovetoreef · #9 09/21/2005, 01:16 PM

the tank is only been up for 3-4 weeks now - all of the livestock came from an established tank as did the water in the tank - the load is low - 2 clowns and one 6 line wrasse - now, i did add a reef package of snails and such from reeftopia about a week ago, so, i might have had a lot of die off from it and that is what is feeding the bacteria/algae bloom -

that is interesting on the dkh - i will have to think about it some more - the ph being low bothers me, but i will keep an eye on it - any ideas - i did a 15 gallon water change today with city water filtered instead of well water - will repeat this weekend and i am going to add algone to the sump (algone.com) - local club members have had good success with this - time will tell

Poolrad · #10 09/21/2005, 01:22 PM

For your water change water do you heavily mix & aerate it for at least 24 hours prior? I mix & aerate mine for 48h before to get solid oxidation and balance.. It helps a lot when doing my weekly water changes...

lovetoreef · #11 09/21/2005, 01:28 PM

yes, i mix well - usually let it mix for 24 hrs - will work on using more aeration and mixing

Poolrad · #12 09/21/2005, 01:39 PM

Another question, how is your gas exchange on your system? Do you have an open top? How about surface agitation or a breeze across the top. Do you use AC in your house? Just trying to figure out your PH problem..

If it is a bacteria bloom problem maybe you could borrow (or buy) a UV sterilzer from someone..

lovetoreef · #13 09/21/2005, 02:35 PM

it is an open top with an stockman overflow - it dumps into a sump with a lifereef skimmer - i will look into getting a fan to blow across the surface - but, i don't think it is an oxygen problem, but it could be?? i am trying to avoid the uv as they can get pretty $$ and i have no friends with one - thnx

Poolrad · #14 09/21/2005, 02:38 PM

UV's aren't too bad, you can get a coralife twist for fairly cheap. I use another brand with a built in wiper, but the coralife's are very cost effective..

swclown · #15 09/21/2005, 02:49 PM

i personally do not trust any one part additive to provide calcium AND alk.

there's a reason the two part ones work well.
a single additive for both would be much more convenient, and that's why they sell, but they're still a new product and i can't see them being that effective this quick on the market

lovetoreef · #16 09/29/2005, 05:19 PM

okay - here is an update - i left the tank alone for 3 days last week while out of town - no lights - the water cleared up a lot - did 15 gallon change on sunday and ran lights for 4 hours - water got more cloudy - ran lights more on monday - more cloudy again - added carbon yesterday and left lights off yesterday and today - still cloudy today - will post test results tomorrow - any ideas?? pls help - thanks.

lovetoreef · #17 09/30/2005, 02:21 PM

pH 7.8
KH 10.6
Ca++ 350
Nitrates 0

also i switched from the "reef complete" to the B-Ionic 2 part system - so, i don't know what else to do - I also started the algone product about 5 days ago also ---
any ideas - still cloudy today

coralfarm123 · #18 09/30/2005, 05:21 PM

It sounds like a bacteria bloom. I have heard of people adding some fresh cured live rock and the problem disappears. I would try looking up some threads on bacteria blooms and see what you can do. At first I thought may calcium precipitating out of the water column, but sounds more like bacteria.

lovetoreef · #19 09/30/2005, 06:09 PM

thanks coralfarm - i think you are probably right - the live rock that came with the tank had a lot of sediment and hair algae - i have been trying to keep the water clean, and i am getting a lot of die off from the hair algae - so, i think that is part of it

lovetoreef · #20 10/09/2005, 06:10 PM

well, i continue to get cloudy water - the water was getting clearer, and i decided to add some more livestock - smart no, but, i did it anyways- yep, you guessed it, is again very cloudy and i don't know what to do - so, here is what i have done and will do ...

1. cleaned out the sump and skimmer that had not been cleaned for 2 years - a lot of crap in there, there was actually stuff growing in the skimmer!!! anyways, i should have done this when i moved the tank, but i didn't so, my fault ... i am hoping this is where there is a lot of nutrient crap

2. will upgrade the return pump from 2 mag 7s to a genx pc40 with an oceans motions super squirt - idea is to take the return in the overflow and change it to a backup drain pipe, then run the 4 returns over the sides of the tank ... this should take care of any microbubbles as i can't control all of the plumbing the way it is now - plus, more flow = more oxygen and fewer dead spots

3. adding an uv sterilizer this week also, i hope that this will help with any bacterial blooms, which i think is what i am fighting now - plus, will help keep the algae and maybe (BIG maybe) help with any ich outbreaks in the future

4. put the lights and fan on a timer

5. added a heater today - help keep a constant temp.

other than that, if this doesn't fix the problem, i guess i will break the tank down and take out the sand and go bare bottom so i can get lots of flow and little accumulation of crap ---

PLEASE - ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS --- i have no refugium or caluerpa in the system, so that is not it - nothing is spawning - the calcium is fine, so no particulates - more milky now than suspended particles - thanks in advance

lovetoreef · #21 10/09/2005, 06:12 PM

oh, and i have been using both carbon and algone for 2 weeks now or so - they might have helped some, but not much, so that makes me think more bacterial bloom than anything else??

i have plenty of live rock, so, that should not be a problem either?? will the uv sterilizer help that much?? what other options do i have??

lovetoreef · #22 10/10/2005, 11:16 AM

any suggestions?? thanks guys in advance

JohnHenry · #23 10/10/2005, 11:43 AM

Sounds like you have enough leads to fix the problem. I'd give it a couple weeks before doing anything drastic (like draining and going BB). It may just take more patience, good luck.

lovetoreef · #24 10/10/2005, 11:45 AM

thanks johnhenry - I have spent hours up here at the office trying to figure out what else to do - i think it could be a combination of several factors, but, I just don't know - hopefully things will improve

gm

lovetoreef · #25 10/12/2005, 08:41 AM

well, the uv did the job - i hooked it up last night around 8 pm and by the time i went back to check at midnight, the water was remarkably clearer, the skimmer was full and was putting out a ton of bubbles, and the sump was filled with bubbles - so, emptied the skimmer, cleaned out some of the bubbles and topped with some fresh ro water - this morning, tank is almost as clear as the first day, skimmer has calmed down and the bubbles are gone - all livestock has done fine - probably glad to be out of all the bacteria!! man, i had no idea that would work that quickly!!

i still plan on upgrading to the supersquirt, redoing the plumbing and putting timers and such this weekend - should make a big difference!!

gm