Tang died within minutes

[Randall_James]

Originally posted by cduran02
I wasnt preaching at anyone in particular, its just that a lot of people think that if you cant see ich, that its not doing any harm. Im just trying to squash any misconceptions about marine ich. Just looking forward to the day when you ask anyone about ich they all give you the same answer.

That could be a long time coming. As much of the research on crypto is lacking and the fact that there is at least 1 strain of the stuff that is hypo resistant.

I do not think that there is enough money in treating or prevention to draw a real interest in qualified study. For now I think it is going to take the coordinated efforts of the avid hobbyist to find alternative solutions.

We have seen everything from garlic to taco sauce used and reported to "cure" a tank but the very nature of ich makes it hard for hobbyist to even determine if the ich is gone.

Onward and upward.. next food stuff ?

[pantera4203]

From day one I was informed about the difficulty in treating ich with a shark. After running a UV Ster. I have yet to have one outbreak of ich. Yet, it seems that everytime something is added to the tank the threat is introduced. QT tanks are good but it is a lot of effort and not always used.
Agreed it is a battle that I think will never be won

[Rod Taylor]

From day one I was informed about the difficulty in treating ich with a shark.

At first glance I took that to mean you would put a shark into the quarantine tank with the sick fish to, umm, take care of the sick fish.

Disturbing thought I might add.

[pantera4203]

Well I quess I wasn't speaking english.

Let start by getting real basic.

Sharks; the treatments that are available for tank treatment are not compatable to a shark. Introducing a new fish into a tank with a shark into it is dangerous. If the shark was to be inflicted with ich, you can not put any of the traditional treatments into the tank to treat the tank with ich. The only treatment is prevention with UV and a Q tank.

Due to the respct that I have for everyone here on RC and all the help that I have got over the years I will leave My comment to what I have already said.

Best
Brandon

ps by the way I am out of this thread!

[Fishfirst]

I qt my hippo tang for 2 months before I put her in the 125... VERY different behavior modes in a small tank (20 gallon) vs a large tank (and this hippo was about the size of a nickle) The hippo would constantly swim in one spot in the 20 gallon... hanging near the filter... keeping to herself... in the 125 she is now swimming from side to side exploring the rockwork, etc... much more active and natural looking.

[DgenR8]

May not be all the info available about ICH, but it is certainly worth looking at
[ich]

[asphaltpilot]

Right off the bat it sounded like the fish got copper poisoning. Did you ensure that you added the right amounts? Did you check the quality of the water first?

[fisherob]

I had the Same Problem with my yellow Tang. It seemed as if it were drunk. I tested the tank and found that my nitrates levels were very high. This happened right after I used the Copper. The levels before the copper were fine. I was treating for an Ich outbreak. My clown fish made it through a six week quaranteen but my yellow tang and glyder Goby didn't.

[honsbeek]

Originally posted by Randall_James
Yep, stress is shown to make them much more susceptible to both.

After reading this full post, your other threads and what you claim and are doing. It appears you have a rather cavalier attitude towards the guys that have the most to offer in the way of help. You also have some glaring contradictions in your posts that lead me to believe that you are very new to the hobby and just went out and bought what ever looked good or was suggested.

You are making classic mistakes that were most commonly seen after someone watched "Nemo" and had to have a tank with one of each including the sea turtles.

Look when the rest of your tank dies off (and I am sure your losses have just started) you might want to dig a bit deeper before throwing more of your hard earned dollars out the window.

EDIT: not to mention killing off some very cool creatures... now I need a valium.................

What you are doing here is lecturing , I don't need to be lectured by you , just answers the new hobbist's questions so he doesn't make any more stupid mistakes. What you are doing is totally putting a beginner down, for no appearent reason.

The point of this forum is not to tell people what they should be doing, but tell them how they can better there approach to the same hobby you are doing. So what if people watched "Nemo" and wanted a tank like that for them self?? Do you have spite towards people for wanting to have a reef tank as a hobby for that reason???

Please keep your pompous remarks and opinions to yourself next time , and don't even bother to help the newbie this way.

I wonder what moderators are doing, having people talk back to questions this way. I don't apperiate it that people freaking go through all my threads to try to asses what i am trying to do?
Hey , if you want to know just ask me !!!

Anyway , I thought this place was a nice place to hang and learn more about reefing, but I guess I have been bullied away...
Hey guess again, Noone Noone bullies me...

So long

[honsbeek]

Originally posted by JENnKerry
[B]


Sorry to sound harsh but either get a much bigger tank so you can properly take care of it or get out of the hobby. Tangs are agile swimmers and need lots of swimming space to thrive. You cannot provide this for them in a small tank such as a 43 gallon. You would be wise to take into consideration all the good advise these good people here on RC gave you. But if you choose not to, then we can't help you. Good luck with your tank.

Yeah great advice, harsh man, maybe i'll just through out my 43 gallon tank out the window. Or should I throw out the TANGS.

Don't quite your dayjob, and don't advise people this way ...

Sorry , but I very vexed now, after reading all these 88 reposts , about what I started ... You all are happy I haven't comitted suicide, because I am so stupid

[ironmanxl1]

Honestly, If we all really cared about these fish so much , we would've left them in the ocean. Countless fish die on the way to our tanks or acclimating to our tanks and for what? So we can have a pretty tank in our homes. I'm sure all of our fish would prefer the ocean rather than any size tank we could have. If you're in this hobby, you're guilty so try not to point fingers too much.

[floridareefs]

Honsbeck--- here is he best advice for you

--dont buy powder blue tangs- we call them "ick magnets in florida. unless you are expert in keeping that species, dont do it.. trust me on that one. I'm no expert, but my frined owns a lfs and he has probs with them and the hippo tangs all the time. for a 43 gallon, try a small yellow tang or red sea.

Just my thoughts. take it for what you will.

[honsbeek]

Originally posted by KIMHARDIE
How big was this tang? I cannot see even a 2" PBT in a 5 gallon! Go to Home Depot and get a rubber made container if you have to and throw the 5 gallon out. Could have used water from the main tank for the qt, even though the ich is there the copper will kill it.
I must also jump in with the Tang police. I want an eel and a Korean Angel and Naso Tang etc..etc But I have a 125 gallon and I think having 1 fish that will get 8" and 5 other fish that will be 4" and under is a wiser idea! They do not fight, and I am not stunting thier growth and sending them to an early grave !! The lfs, like petco will tell you anything is okay to make a sale. I have spent hours researching fish before buying anything. Its not just size but also compatability. You can get mad at everyone who tells you not to put a Tang in a 43 gallon I think alot of people would agree not to put them in anything less than a 100 gallon and alot of Tangs need much bigger systems. I got into this hobby also not realizing that you cant just set up a tank and throw the fish in. I am no expert now but I know enough,[ And I am still researching and taking advise] I have made the overstocking mistake as others have. Too many fish, too large of fish does lead to trouble!!! and a desease or parasite will quickly over come fish in a crowded tank.
A good stoking rule is 1" of fish per 5 gallons and you may not like it but it is a good rule to follow.If you are mad about this fish dying and continue to ignore the warnings of others about stocking , I can garentee you will have many more dead fish in your future and the only person to blame is yourself!

Thanks KIMHARDIE,

Great kind advise, better then some of these guys in there who think this is their club to advise... I see what you are saying , and to tell you the truth , I've been doing it for 2 years now, but still are in the unknown, because I never actually relied on any forums to help me, but just shop owners etc, but they don't really want to advise you to much , just sell more... so

much appreciated

[cduran02]

Your right, they are bashing you rather than actually helping you. The only thing I would suggest is to get a couple of good books on marine aquariums, like I did, and then if you still have questions come to the forum and ask. I find this to be the best way for 2 reasons, 1) A book wont BASH you for making mistakes and 2) You'll be better armed against bashers when you come to the boards.

In the mean time, dont pay attention and dont even bother responding to bashers and just continue to inform yourself.

[honsbeek]

Originally posted by pantera4203
Hey guys,

I don't think he coming back to this thread

I'm back , Are you a borred man or something??

Get a life , Stop bullying !!!

[zoltetov]

It's not a matter of being stupid. People may not always have the best approach, but you have to understand where these people are coming from. The number one focus of 90% of the people in this hobby, including me, isn't having something cool in a glass box. It's the coolness of creating a world in a glass box. As the creator of that world, you OWE it to your inhabitants to give them the BEST life possible. We're constantly fighting over-fishing, populations being wiped out by commercialism, polution, or what have you. Please understand that when someone leaps into things without researching and that results in death, this only furthers the commercial agenda. You then go out and need to replace the fish that you killed, that will most likely die again. The lfs then replaces the fish you got, etc... etc.. etc...

You also have to understand that when these people do make good points, it isn't always in your best interest to respond to them with, "I can't keep 45 tangs in a 2.5 pico?!?! That's crazy!! I can do what i want!" That only serves to enrage the nice ones who are helping you.

If you want to be successful in this hobby, understand what it's about. Anyone can keep a pretty fish in a glass box. It's the difference between prison and living. You have a responsibility to the living creatures you keep to provide the best possible living environment to them. If you don't see it that way, then it is certainly understandable why the rest of us would suggest to get out of the hobby. It hurts our own ethics when someone else does that. I'm not saying you feel that way. I'm only saying you SOUND like you feel that way.

[Randall_James]

Originally posted by honsbeek
What you are doing here is lecturing , I don't need to be lectured by you , just answers the new hobbyist's questions so he doesn't make any more stupid mistakes. What you are doing is totally putting a beginner down, for no appearent reason.

Point partially taken, and my apologies.

The post you were referring to however was in response to your comment that the person advising you that a fish in a small tank was far more susceptible to ich and disease.

That kind of denial could lead some other person to follow your example and that would not be so good.
My comment about your experience level was based on your other posts and questions and sorry if that offended you but you said you had 2 years exp with this and in another 3 weeks. Not that it really matters that much but at 2 years one would expect you should know what carbon is and what it is used for.
This would make me think you were treating with copper and following directions on the bottle. But did you have a copper test kit?
I think the crime is on the part of the copper supplier myself. They should give you a fresh test kit with the copper treatment. There is no way to treat with copper and no test kit.
If you had not noticed, most here care more about their tanks and their inhabitants than they do of the people in forums. (Would they talk to their fish this way? Doubt it ) So expect them to be passionate about the care of fish that require 100G tanks but instead are packed 2 or 3 to something less than half that size.
Again my apologies and do not think for a second anyone is here solely to make you feel bad. They are just trying to be good custodians.

[zoltetov]

One further point...at the beginning of all this, you asked why your tang died. Why it developed ich and then went downhill. A. PB-Tangs are one of the most susceptible-to-ich fish in the ocean. B. You thought the reasons were x, y, and z. The tang police, while you might not have agreed with their method, were actually explaining to you why your fish died. Just because it wasn't the answer your were expecting, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. I think some people need to take into consideration that you aren't real deep in the hobby and are learning everything right now. That doesn't mean the points they were making are wrong.

[honsbeek]

Originally posted by NexDog
Ralph, you should take things a bit more slowly. You've put alot of fish in a new tank and if you don't fix the tank now, all your fish could die. Your YT had ich. This means you have ich in the main tank and other fish may (will) get infested and die. So just waiting won't do anything but spur along your fish's demise. You need to treat ALL your fish now for Ich or you'll be battling it forever.

The trick with Ich is prevention rather than cure. When you get a new fish you should treat them BEFORE they get introduced to the main tank. This ensures that the parasite will never get into the system. I'm against copper as a treatment for Ich. Copper acts as an irritant that causes a fish to slime up and the parasite drops off. It's highly stressful for some fish and should only be used on a healthy fish with no signs of an infestation. Using it on a sick and stressed YT in a 5 gallon jug is a recipe for disaster.

I have a Yellow Tang that I got over a month ago. I put him in a 20g quarantine tank but didn't treat him at first. He was starving so it was my priority to get him eating which he did after a week. He's now in week 4 of hyposalinity and doing great. I put a small perc in there to keep him company too. He did develop Ich (very badly) just before I started the hypo treatment and I was worried that the hypo wouldn't work quick enough to save him (it takes 2 weeks for hypo to kill the initial parasite). Luckily the house was largely empty because I had to leave the country and my wife and kids stayed with her parents. The YT gets stressed when people walk passed so that wasn't helping. The empty house and food soaked in Selcon got him through the 2 week period and when I returned the Ich was gone.

This whole thing is a learning process and it should be learned slowly a few fish at a time. I've had many fish die for various reasons - bad acclimatisation, brooklynella, Ich etc but after each death, I learned how to prevent it. Good acclimatisation techniques, treating clowns for brook and QT methods for Ich.

Small steps.

NexDog !!!

Thanks for the history ,

I agree with you , that this hobby is not like builing models, or growing potatoes, much much more complicated and expensive if not learned correctly ... The Trouble I have is that , I don't have the any other tanks for quarantine use , so ...

Thanks anyways

[honsbeek]

Originally posted by ironmanxl1
Honestly, If we all really cared about these fish so much , we would've left them in the ocean. Countless fish die on the way to our tanks or acclimating to our tanks and for what? So we can have a pretty tank in our homes. I'm sure all of our fish would prefer the ocean rather than any size tank we could have. If you're in this hobby, you're guilty so try not to point fingers too much.

ironmanxl1

My god !!!! , Did you get it right !!!! You took the words out of my head and mouth... guess some of the other forumist are very young and pompous, it's ok , I don't really blame them...
They must have a lot to learn about live itself, so... all the best of luck to them.... Hey probaly single and angry too huh, them bullies ... (^_^) LOL LOL

Ralph

[JENnKerry]

The point of this forum is not to tell people what they should be doing, but tell them how they can better there approach to the same hobby you are doing.

Very well then......research before you buy anything so you don't make the same mistake you just did. Here's a question for you. Why not stock your tank with fish that are appropriate for it?


I wish you the very best with your tank. Hopefully you will learn from your mistakes. Take care. I'm done.

[floridareefs]

spoken like a true northerner!!!!! lmao

[JENnKerry]

Originally posted by jagsy
spoken like a true northerner!!!!! lmao

[zoltetov]

Originally posted by honsbeek
ironmanxl1

My god !!!! , Did you get it right !!!! You took the words out of my head and mouth... guess some of the other forumist are very young and pompous, it's ok , I don't really blame them...
They must have a lot to learn about live itself, so... all the best of luck to them.... Hey probaly single and angry too huh, them bullies ... (^_^) LOL LOL

Ralph

How DARE us hobbyists do our best to learn and understand about those funny looking things in the water. We don't need to learn how to help their natural environment overcome the stress that we as a global society place on it. JennKerry...it's a good thing that you only have all those flowerpots in your tanks cause they're pretty. I'd hate to think you actually did anything else with them..like..study them or try to understand how their systems interact with others.

Damn those hobbyists for having perfect reefs in their living rooms and figuring out what polutants, pathogens, etc... are killing the reefs in the wild. All those aquacultured animals and the people who push them are all ....whatever....I'm not going to change your mind.

[floridareefs]

i have a red and a green flower pot in my 90, bith are doing well and hosted by one of my maroon clowns