Looking for Southdown

[philagothos]

I am finally getting started with my first tank. I want to use a dsb and it's a 90 gallon so I need a lot of sand. I'm also stuck in TN, so Southdown is not available anywhere near me. In a week a buddy of mine will be making a trip to northern OH and can pick up some for me, as long as I can find it before he hits the road. Anyone up there know of a place that carries it? Thanks in advance.

-Kevin

[sagi]

I just ordered 10 bags delivered to my local HD that was shipped from Saginaw MI (I beleive). They had about 100 bags as of two weeks ago and may be the only source this side of the Mississippi. I will try to find my order info to get you the SKU as it was impossible to get this ordered w/o having a prior order slip. Thanks to Summers record keeping, it was the only way I got mine.

[philagothos]

Thanks! I hope I can find the stuff. I'm a student so I need to save every penny I can. Did you have any problems getting HD to cooperate? I've heard that it can be like pulling teeth.

[sagi]

Sent PM

[Kreeger1]

Do a little more researching on Dsb before you decide to go that route
Erik

[philagothos]

Erik, I know there is a lot of controversy over DSBs, but it is the route I have chosen. I've been reading everything I can find for the last several months. I understand both sides of the debate, but I want to go with as close to natural as I can. In all likelihood I might regret this since I am a student and will be moving in 3 years for grad school, and 3 years later for my career. I guess I will basically have to start over each time, oh well. Thanks for your input though.

[Kreeger1]

Good luck you'll need it
Erik

[sagi]

Ericksmacks, do you care to elaborate?

[Kreeger1]

It would take to long to write, to sum it up, DSB are time bombs waiting to go off. They were thought to be the ticket reef tanks success a few years maybe even a year ago. Some still support them, I.E. Dr. Ron but I have my beliefs why he still does. The y work for around a year then become filled with basically crap, were does all this "crap" go after awhile it gets released back into the tank. I had a dsb for a year I think, a powerhead fell in my tank and stirred up the dsb. I lost 1000's of doolars worth of corals, probably 75 different sps corals and more
The benefits don't come close to the downfalls of that system. As you see on the boards now the more educated ones are removing there dsb. There just not a long term filter for a reef tank
Erik

[Kreeger1]

Oh yeah, southdown also clumps, and forums hard rock areas. For a dsb southdown makes it even worse of a filter. You spend all that money on corals but jump at the 5 dollar bag of sand, You get what you pay for holds true on this one
Erik

[philagothos]

Erik,
I respect your opinion, especially since you obviously have more experience than me at this. But, you use poor arguing skills to say that all more educated people are moving away from DSBs. For every nightmare there are also success stories. I have talked with reefers who have had DSBs run for many years with no problem. DSBs can work, if the tank is set up properly. Like virtually every other system, it can crash if there is a catastrophe.

As for your complaints about Southdown... I have read many many threads of people using Southdown, and found very few people that reported any problems with it. It sounds like you had a bad experience that you are generalizing to say that every DSB is a ticking time bomb. The same could be said of virtually every system out there.

-Kevin

[Steven Pro]

You all may wish to read these two articles as part of your education into DSB's:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/eb/index.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-1...ture/index.htm

[Kreeger1]

Not really philagothos, as I stated, I didn't really want to go into the whole dsb debate. It works for a short time period. I've seen it on many tanks and many of those tanks did well in the beggingng now there not. I can't say that I know one person that is still using southdown sand now that I know personally. We all got rid of it. To me it would be the same as setting up a tank with a undergravel filter now, why use something that can work but usuaully is nothing but problems.
You say for every horror story there is a success story, just give those success stories time, it will happen.
Erik

[Kreeger1]

In that article you posted Steve, the closing was "Dsb are not time bombs." Well, thats false imo and others. My room selt of sulfur when my crashed and I've heard that from others that have removed theres too. This hobby has people on both sides of the fence those that are for and same that it must have been how you took care of he tank that caused it not the dsb, and those that blame the tank looking bad on dsb alone.
There are no proven facts here to support either argument fully! All I know is Is it really worth the risk? my answer is NO

[Csxno1]

Correct me if i am wrong Steven Pro, but if a DSB is taken care of properly they are the best reducers of nitrogen?? And i hardly think that a pwerhead falling on a sandbead and disturbing it counts as thinking they have failed. Of course if you go digging through it you willget the anaerobic areas w/some hydrogen sulfide. You should not have had so much though that it stunk up the house. I believe Anthony Calfos Propagation book gives the best description on how to run a DSB.

[Kreeger1]

MDM Aquatics, A powerhead fell in my tank and it made the room smell like rooten eggs. I made that up? I think I know what Im doing 6 plus years with saltwater tanks. Try reading some of the removing the dsb threads then comment. If you feel you need to ask someones advice on dsb you really shouldn't be commenting on them yourself. Not the best press for yourself your stirring up on the net

Erik

[scrummyotool]

Smacks Ive seen people who've been in this hobby for over 20yrs
they also are the ones at one time who said bristle worms were a bad thing, 6 plus yrs should have told you not to rely on those faulty suction cups. I use a mix of southdown,crushed coral and a home made mix of live rock rubble. My tank is full of pods,worms various snail astera,cerith,nasarious,troches,blue legg,scarlet reef red legs,mithrax sand sifting star,conchs and cucumbers the hard areas of sand are a result of the sand not being turned.I would think that the better tank would try to mimic the ocean. Last I checked these animals are from the ocean, also being that you maintained a dsb for 1 yr is hardly enough experience to commit on the pros and cons of the debate you started. Lets stick to the thread do you know where I can locate some south down. These are my opinions based on experience and what I've seen in other peoples tanks that are well into 5yrs or more with a dsb with no problems.

[Csxno1]

Wow eriksmacks really should learn some people skills folks, first of all i don't think i was questioning whether or not the powerhead fell, but it was the fact that you were condeming DSB because you had a powerhead fall. How is it that a powerhead falling and stirring up a sandbed that is not MEANT to be stirred in that manner is evidence of DSB not working?? Who cares what the experts say?? Do what works for you, i have had great success at home as well as my work at the Cleveland metroparks zoo aquatics dept. for many years with DSB's. They are in my opinon one of the greatest leaps of success for nirtogen reduction in the reef aquarium in my opinon.

On a side note, this just goes to show people how one person can just down right be nasty for no reason, i do not believe i was at all being a "jerk" as i am being told from eriksmacks although if anyone notices he is sure quick to put someone down in his posts, and then i recieve the following nasty PM

"You lost a customer and probably many more as soon as I tell my circle of reefers not to go to you store/house.
It pays not to be a jerk on the boards when you profit from people on these boards
Erik"


Frankly folks as some of the C-Sea and other people that have dealt with me could testify, i am NOT a JERK, I am a fair business man with great customer service and frankly i do not need people like ERIKSMACKS with his bad attitude and problem causing posts as someone i would even want to do business with. Especially considering he has never met me, seen my operation or know anything about me or my business. Yet threatens to take him and his friends business away from me. How childish is that?? Just becasue i have an opinon on something i get threatned about my business and I AM the JERK?? Go figure.

[Kreeger1]

I missed typed scrummy, I've been in the hobby 16 years. I never said anything about a suction cup on a powerhead failing. I had my powerhead zip tied to a lettuce clip, actually a few power heads on it and one came lose and fell. Im probably one of the first people in this area to start frag corals, and probably one if not the first to trade corals with other reefers in the area. So I do know what Im taking about. I'm just so fed up with people that push dsb and not commenting on the possible hugh problems with them.
Mike, I met you at the columbus frag swap, I told you that your corals were over priced and your Table acro was sweet. I talked with you for a minute. YOur posts were you lied and acted as a customer at mdm vs. the owner set your own tone. Good luck with your business. Plus I've heard a few stories about you so that made it easy for me to jump your case when you questioned my reefing experience.
And to the topic of this thread, Home depot carries it and if there out you can order it, but usually you need to get a pallet to get them to order it
Erik
Scrummy do you run a dsb? How about you Mike?

[Kreeger1]

But as I stated main times above, I really didn't want to go into the dsb debate topic, My first reply was do a search about dsb, then it was good luck, then I was asked to elaborate which I tried to keep my views breif. So if you think I was triing to be a reefer god like you stated in your pm I wasn't I was just stating my opion and giving my advice, use it or don't but thats what a forums is for. Getting opions of mass people.

Oh yeah Scrummy, I still think Bristle worms are bad IMO
Erik

[dieselfish]

If using southdown I definately suggest using a layer of crushed coral or aragonite over it. Southdown is very fine and does tend to float around the tank easily.

[kmk2307]

[flamealert]

Also my own $.02... I use all southdown in one of my aquaria and a much coarser sand in the other and I don't have a strong preference of either over the other. After the initial cloud from the SD, I don't have "sandstorms" from the SD.

Kevin

[dieselfish]

oh shut up

[Kreeger1]

It was handled in pm kmk, a day or to ago
Erik

[coastal]

Ihave 50 pallets of southdown