Yet another anemone lighting question...

[Jim13]

I'd like to add an anemone in six moths or so (after I know my tank is stable) and am trying to figure out how much light I should plan on adding (Gotta break this to the wife slowly ).

I'm thinking BTA or a hadoni (leaning more toward the hadoni)

I have a 40 reg (17" from light to sand) that currently has one 96w 50/50 PC in it.

Would I be ok adding just one more 96w PC or do you guys think I should do 2?

I know that for the cost of 2, I could probably do halides, but I don't really have the time to build another hood, and I can fit 2 more 96s in my hood without any changes.

Thanks,

Jim

[weimluv1]

hmm... i would think no...but i've never used pcs....

IF you're using PC bulbs, i'd say your best bet would be a BTA...


although for your tank i would scrap the PCs and get T5 HO or VHOs if you plan on keeping any anemone for long term.


you can get an icecap 440 w/ 4 bulbs and reflector for under 300. of course, you could also get a very nice sunlight supply 6 bulb T5 hood for 329...

[zerocool2382]

i have a 40 breeder so its a little shallower, but i have 2x96w PC bulbs, and my 3 RBTA anemones have been happy for well over a year now. If its your first anemone stick with the Bubble tips to get aquainted with the needs of anemone with killing off your first.

[1234]

I'm with zero - for a first time the rose would be a good one to start with and you can keep them under tfhe PC's with great success.

[traveller7]

Add the PC 96 and go with BTAs.

[ACIDRAIN]

Most anemones don't really like the MH lighting, and do wonderfully under the PCs. However, the carpet is not MOST anemonees, and thus does require the higher lighting, and most actually will not do very good unless under the MHs. I have kept several BTAs, and long tenticle anemones under PCs, as well as under several NO lighting. All did very well, and grew to large sizes. The one I just had split is in a 75 gal under 260 watts of PC.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by ACIDRAIN
Most anemones don't really like the MH lighting, and do wonderfully under the PCs.

I have never seen anything other then anecdotal information to support that statement. Please share what you have found.

fwiw this survey does not seem to support the statement:

http://www.breedersregistry.org/anem...veyresults.htm

and neither does this article:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...02/feature.htm

[ACIDRAIN]

My info comes from "Host Sea Anemone Secrets" by Dr Ron Shimek. 2001 ISBN 0-9664549-5-2

An excellent book, that not only completely disects the anatomy of the anemone, but describes all the functions as well. Also has some great info on the different ways that differen anemones produce ofspring, as some split, some are sexual, and some bud off part of thier foot and such.

I actually believed as many others still do, that all anemones need as much light as possible, but since reading this book, and moving things around in my tanks, I have now found things to work much better. As well, at one of the LFS that I sell to, they started putting their new arrival anemones in tanks with VHO vs MH, and they are actually doing much better too. Under the MHs, they usually tried to find a hiding place before coming out into the light. And under the VHOs, they open fully, where ever they are placed.

[ACIDRAIN]

I enjoyed both of those articles, though they are not conclusive as to saying that the higher lighting is better and the anemones will do better under higher lighting. The first one was not done in a scientific method of study. It had no control groups, or equal measurements, but was mostly one sided and was just a look at what others are/have done. So in other words, it is anecdotal. And actually has statements to back up what I have been stating about these creatures. The second one was actually about the developement of the "bubbles" on the BTAs, and was done only in very high lighting, and also shows the BTAs moving to lower lighting areas of the tank.

The Breeders Registry
Just some quotes here from this first article;

Under the section, "Results and Conclusions" "lighting";
Over 90% of anemones were under metal halide (MH) lights, or MH in combination with something else. The others were under Very High Output (VHO) fluorescents, power compacts (PC), or various combinations. Nearly all systems included actinics. Among other examples of success without MH, was an E. quadricolor which had been kept for 5 years under PC lights, was in top health, and had produced a good number of clones which had been sold.
As 90% of the study was done under MHs, then comparison to PCs, and VHOs cannot been done. IMO, the above quote states that PCs are great for these creatures, as their study states a BTA not only in "top health", but producing a good number of clones as well. And for the past 5 years.

Under section 4, "Species Specific Information";
One example of this was a respondent who said his E. quadricolor liked a spot where it was attached to the underside of an overhanging rock, but reaching out into the tank in a position of high light and strong current.
As I stated about my own personal experience, in the below thread link, this article has backed me up. another RBTA question

In this second article, it to is inconclusive. Though it was a study done in a scientific way, it did use a control. But, it is actually a study about the developement of the bulbs on the BTA, and not lighting requirements. And as such, uses nothing but higher levels of lighting. So there is not comparison in lighting.
Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine
Under the section "Discussion" at the end of the article, it states the following;
This study, by no means the definitive word, offers documented evidence for the role of light in the development of bulb tips.
It also states that several of these BTAs that were placed into a tank with higher light, and more of it, actually moved to less lighting conditions within the tank;
Several E. quadricolor were also placed in a 5500 gallon reef exhibit that receives more hours of direct sunlight than the new anemone exhibit. Several of the anemones in this exhibit have moved to various locations in the tank (shallow vs. deep, low current vs. high current) so it will be interesting to note if they retain their bulb tips and for how long.

[traveller7]

Glad you had the chance to read and enjoy the articles. There are few more out there on Waikiki Aquarium, but seeing the natural lit environments first hand over a multiyear period leaves quite an impression and truly puts an end to the discussion of BTA lighting.

In fairness, I did live across from Waikiki for 5 years and had the chance to watch the events which bias's my opinions.

I have Dr. Ron's book as well and it is a fine reference material, especially in respect to the argument of proper feeding, etc. It does not address some of the hosting species which do very poorly under less then Metal Halides, like H. magnifica.

E. quadricolor has proven its ability to survive under vast lighting arrangements, but the other species have not proven such based on the 2002 survey, the 2003 survey, and RC posts. 0% of non-E. quadricolors in the 2003 survey is quite a statement. (phenders and my personal non-MH non-BTA specimens were not in the 2003 survey, but 10% is still not a validation)

Interesting E. quadricolor data points:

BTA's need to acclimate to lighting adjustments just like any other polyp and to ignore the processes of UV protection, symbiotic algae, etc., would be a mistake.

Sexual reproduction under the most intense lighting, not just protectionist BTA divisions.

An example of a MH lit non-dividing BTA of considerable size in the thread you previously referenced:

hammerhead's giant BTA

The E. quadricolors in Waikiki are 20" or greater as well.

The E. quadricolors in Waikiki did not have bubbles under lower lighting, bubbled under direct and intense sun lighting, and I saw them again this time last year out of direct sunlight, no bubbles again. Are we seeing a pattern here?

The only reason I brought any of the is up is that we know anemone survivability has proven historically poor and it does not bode well to make blanket statements about a critical component like lighting without noting species, tank depth, etc. We owe it to the new to anemone keeping folks to set the bar high enough so that there can be slight errors without mortality.

For example, hammerhead's anemone is one of the few long term specimens that does not get frequent direct feeding but it would not be wise to conclude that no anemone needs direct feeding.

Cheers.

[ACIDRAIN]

Yes, I like his book collection as well. Most of his statements are those of a scientific nature, and so I tend to believe them. This particular book, I have recomended to many new anemone keepers. I have gotten several of the LFS selling them. I feel it is more of a beginner type book, and thus is the reason it does not go into to much detail about keeping those species which do very poorly under less than MHs, like the magnifica.

As for keeping of these, you will see in my origianl post in this thread, I did make that statement that these and others, do require the higher lighting. My not so high lighting was stated mostly directed at the BTA. Which was the original question, about the BTA or the magnifica.

The only reason I brought any of the is up is that we know anemone survivability has proven historically poor and it does not bode well to make blanket statements about a critical component like lighting without noting species, tank depth, etc. We owe it to the new to anemone keeping folks to set the bar high enough so that there can be slight errors without mortality.

I 100% agree! And probably should have been more clear in my original post. It was mainly aimed towards those mostly encountered in the hobby when I stated "most". With the exception of the magnifica, or any other carpet type anemone.

[Jim13]

Wow....I expected some discussion, but not all that

I will definately check those links my next day off. No time to read them now with school and all.

Plan at this point is to add another 96w PC (2 if I have the $$)and do a BTA. I definately want to do this right, and am going to find a tank split if possible (anyone know of anyone in socal that sells their splits?). The thought of killing something that actually came off a reef is horrifying to me.

Thanks to all for your contributions

Jim