Still confused about diagnosis of Brook., Crypto and Amyloodinium... :-(

BigShot · #1 10/04/2004, 10:54 PM

Both Crypto and Amyloodinium have white dots... so how can one tell the difference?
Both Amlyloodiunium and Brooklynella (and Crypto after a while) can lead to skin pealing off and hence white slimy patches...
Is there a source with pictures of all for comparison?

thank you,
Luke

SAT · #2 10/05/2004, 07:48 AM

Actually, Amlyoodinium doesn't typically show distinct spots. If you see those, you should assume it's Crypto. A heavy Amly infestation may show a "dusty" appearance, but often you won't even see that. If you're still unsure, the easy answer is to treat with copper (preferably a lower toxicity form such as Cupramine).

The symptoms of Brooklynella and Amlyoodinium are mostly identical, particularly in early stages. The slimy whte patches are more typical of Brook, but you won't always see that symptom. If the disease is spreading rapidly, it's more likely to be Amly, since Brook only transmits by direct contact. To tell these two apart, I suggest "oama's dip test": http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...fwdiptest.html

oama · #3 10/05/2004, 10:21 PM

To add to what Stuart has said...

Amyloo, with a "free living stage" can easily infect other fish quickly. But, Brook can kill an individual fish very fast. Often with in hours of the first signs of symptoms. As the nature of wild things, weak fish are often picked on by others. If a fish is infected w/ Brook, it would be weak/stressed and other fish may "attack" it, thus coming in contact with the infection.

Generally...
White "salt grain size" spots = Crypto
Ropy/pealing slime coat = Brook
Velvety "sheen" = Amyloo

The dip test can determine if Amyloo or not.

BigShot · #4 10/05/2004, 10:25 PM

Thanks oama and SAT. If Brook/Amylo rarely show the outside symptoms, then I still have no clue how to differentate between them in the early stages... :-(. Are there any pictures somewhere that would somewhat show the symptopms in their advanced (visible) stages?
Also, would buying a cheap microscope help to diagnose things?

Thank you,
Luke

oama · #5 10/05/2004, 10:45 PM

Ok...A few more details...

Brook infects the eyes. If the eyes become cloudy/filmed over, then it's most likely brook.

Both Brook & Amyloo infect the gills early on. So, look for heavy breathing, little movement with fish orientated into the current. The FW dip will differentiate between the two at this stage.

Read, Read, Read....

A good start is here...
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...hdiseases.html

FishBase disease section and the Fishdisease.net seems to be down at the moment...so I can't like you to them for pics.

BigShot · #6 10/05/2004, 11:23 PM

oama, but with clouding of eyes, since the fish is week and copper is added couldn't the cloudy eye reflect bacterial infection (treat with MaracynTwo) due to weakened fish through disease and copper?

Thank you,
Luke

BigShot · #7 10/05/2004, 11:32 PM

Few more things...
Do fish with Brook infection also scratch?
I would love to see some pictures of Brook and Amyloodinum, especially what is meant by 'white slimy patches' with Brook and dusty appearance with velvet.
As you meantion heavy breathing and cloudy eye, but these could also be caused by poor water quality, right?

Again if I get a cheap microscope (can any one recommend one) would it help in diagnosis?

Joe Damone · #8 10/07/2004, 08:42 PM

aquariology the science of fish health manegment tetra press has pictures and treatments

Joe

gordongregory · #9 10/12/2004, 03:38 PM

Big Shot,
Not sure if you're still looking for info and pics? If so, here's a good article with a few images and good source pages at the end of article right here @ RC about various diseases including Brook on a clown.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-1...ture/index.htm
Good luck,
Gordon

BigShot · #10 10/12/2004, 05:21 PM

Cool, thanks Gordon