Cheap sand bed alternative - Page 2

Chihuahua6 · #26 01/03/2008, 12:40 PM

Jenni I tried the link and I don't see pictures.

jennmac415 · #27 01/03/2008, 12:49 PM

you have to scroll down the page to see pics of the sand and bags it comes in..

LobsterOfJustice · #28 01/03/2008, 02:36 PM

What I got from the article I linked is that your limestone could be perfectly fine, but it might not be. "Limestone" is just too general of a term.

Honestly, what I would worry about is that it would dissolve into your water, and wreak havoc on pH, Alk, Ca, and perhaps Mg levels. The thing with aragonite is that we know what pH it dissolves at, and we know that if it does begin to dissolve, it won't mess up your levels too much.

LobsterOfJustice · #29 01/03/2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stingythingy45
And it you think sand is NOT expensive then you must be made of $$$.
Because for the price they ask........it is definitely not worth it.
BTW...Florida live rock is nothing but limestone dumped into the ocean for a few years.

I'm certainly not made of money. All I'm saying is find a local who is downsizing, going BB, or getting out of the hobby. I picked up 10g of sand from a local for free a year or two ago. Heck, I've been trying to get rid of a few buckets myself to no avail. IMO, live rock is the same way. No way I would ever pay the prices LFS's or online shippers charge for rock. ALWAYS get rock from another reefer IMO.

And just to play devils advocate on the "live rock is just limestone".... so is chalk.

stingythingy45 · #30 01/03/2008, 02:53 PM

Lobsterofjustice,

Did you see the link I posted to a thread back here on RC?
It's quite interesting that this stuff(pulverized limestone) was being discussed even though southdown was still available back then.

rustybucket145 · #31 01/03/2008, 02:55 PM

+2 on the pulverized limestone. I couldn't find the Pavestone brand but just poked holes in different manufactuerers bags until I found a good consistency and grain size.

I didn't wash either, it took a couple of days for the tank to clear but since then it looks great. Super white sand!!

Here's my argument for the pulverized limestone.....

Aragonite = Calcium Carbonate = $40/bag

Pulverized Limestone = Calcium Carbonate = $4/bag

Honestly I have some of all of it in my tanks, Aragonite, Pulverized limestone and even a couple hundred pounds of play sand. I've had no problems or seen any difference (other than appearance) in any of them.

Chihuahua6 · #32 01/03/2008, 04:38 PM

I searched Yahoo for Pavestone pulverized limestone and found some information from other reef sites. One was from Dr. Ron Shimek. The general feeling I got was that it was okay to use. The only thing I question though is whether or not the grains are sharp like silica sand is. I do want to get a Yellow Watchman Goby and/or Blue Spotted Jawfish so I wonder if the limestone would be okay for them.

jennmac415 · #33 01/03/2008, 05:23 PM

no, I would not think that the grains are sharp... you all would have to actrually see it to understand... it is a very "chalky" sand... just like LIMESTONE...very small and powdery grains..... SILICA SAND, if you look at it under a microscope, has very sharp and jagged edges.It is just like ground up GLASS...the grians are evn shiny.... I saw somewhere that it can actually cut the insides of the animals that ingest it.

jennmac415 · #34 01/03/2008, 05:26 PM

here is some info on "calcium carbonate" which is what this pulverized limestone states that it is on the bag... note off to the side of the page.."other names" ....... ARAGONITE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate

jennmac415 · #35 01/03/2008, 05:29 PM

here, on the other hand, is a close up picture of regular "silica sand"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand

which would you rather use?

reeformadness · #36 01/03/2008, 05:45 PM

I have never heard of using powdered limestone for substrate, but it seems like a good idea. I think LobsterofJustice is trying to explain the diversity of CaCO3. It can come in the form of many minerals (calcite, oolite, aragonite). These are not synonyms. These minerals have different crystalline properties. Fossils, shells, and coral skeletons are also forms CaCO3. Its kinda like why is the firetruck red? Aragonite is CaCO3, but aragonite is not calcite. Lobster raises a valid point. Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolite. It would help to know that this stuff is phosphate free, but it sounds like people have been pretty successful with it, so I would not be too concerned.

bigtex52 · #37 01/03/2008, 05:48 PM

Quite a few members of our reef club (DFWMAS) have been using it for about 3 years now without any problems whatsoever. When asked, they all say they would use it again in a heartbeat and several have when they upgraded tanks.

I personally have been using it for over a year. YMMV, but I would doubt it.

LobsterOfJustice · #38 01/03/2008, 07:20 PM

Reeformadness, yes that is what I am trying to say. Not all calcium carbonate, or limestone, is created equal. If people are using it with success thats great. But I would make sure you get exactly the same stuff... the same brand, from the same company, etc. Otherwise you could be dealing with a whole different product.

Quote:

Originally posted by jennmac415
here is some info on "calcium carbonate" which is what this pulverized limestone states that it is on the bag... note off to the side of the page.."other names" ....... ARAGONITE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate

Look at the rest of the "other names". Are you going to put marble or chalk (or eggshells as mentioned in the first paragraph) on the bottom of your tank? Do you think marble and chalk are the same thing? If you want to get your fiance a diamond engagement ring, are you going to save some money and get a graphite ring? After all, Graphite = pure carbon = pennies per oz, and Diamonds = pure carbon = thousands per oz.

Regardless, I think at this point the pulverized limestone is a much better alternative than silica sand, but nothing beats the real thing.

SurfnFish · #39 01/03/2008, 07:52 PM

I was thinking of changing my BB to get a more natural look. Pulverized limestone may be the way to go. Can I just slowly add it in one day, or do I need to add little at a time to prevent a spike? I also like the buffer factor. Please share your advice in adding this stuff to my established BB. Thanks.

stingythingy45 · #40 01/03/2008, 10:27 PM

What kind of spike are you looking to avoid,nitrate?
If you look at my gallery you'll see my center rock on a bed of pulverized limestone.I had 60 lbs of LR that was only out of water for an hour in the tank, bare bottom.I never had much of a cycle at all,just a diatom bloom and then later,problems with cyano.
All the corals on that rock made it.I've never registered nitrate and the tank has been set up since mid-July.

SurfnFish · #41 01/04/2008, 12:05 AM

Wow, we have almost the same exact setup minus the limestone. I have the Bak Pak also, along with 216 watts lighting. I too have the AC50 for Carbon.

HippieSmell · #42 01/04/2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reeformadness
It would help to know that this stuff is phosphate free, but it sounds like people have been pretty successful with it, so I would not be too concerned.

That's what I always thought, that limestone had phosphates. But, I'll have to keep this in mind for the next tank if people don't have any problems.

SurfnFish · #43 01/04/2008, 01:34 PM

bump

doadster · #44 01/04/2008, 02:03 PM

Great info on sand. Going to add more sand to my 90 and was wondering what is the best way to do this w/o making a huge sandstorm in tank. Will this mess up my balance in tank.
And does the limestone at HD come in anything smaller then 50lbs

luke33 · #45 01/04/2008, 03:47 PM

Yea, i've been using sand from lowe's for over a year now. 150lbs for 15bux. Its a white silica sand that was machine washed before i puchased it. I then washed it myself and no dust at all came out of it. It looks great to me and my ph is at 8.2 constantly. However, for the first few mths i did have quite a hair algae outbreak but after that it was just fine. But like mentioned above you have to make sure your magnet cleaner doesn't have any in it or you will scratch your tank. I wouldn't suggest it for acrylic tanks thats for sure.

stingythingy45 · #46 01/04/2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SurfnFish
Wow, we have almost the same exact setup minus the limestone. I have the Bak Pak also, along with 216 watts lighting. I too have the AC50 for Carbon.

Yes,we do.
Sometimes i'll run a new filter to clean up the water column.
But not for long before changing it or cleaning.
I don't need a nitrate factory.
Might just add you to my buddy list as we'll probably be battling the same crap.

I might need someone to complain too that has the same set up.

SurfnFish · #47 01/04/2008, 09:57 PM

Ha ha...yep!

SurfnFish · #48 01/05/2008, 05:34 PM

I've been to 2 HD's, and neither have had the Pulverized Limestone. Any other suggestions on a nice white sandbed?

jennmac415 · #49 01/05/2008, 05:36 PM

you looked outside in the garden dept... thats where I found it..not with the other sands inside.

SurfnFish · #50 01/05/2008, 05:43 PM

Yep, outside in the garden sections with all the other pavestone products, landscape stone, manuer, and grass seed. Maybe they don't carry it in CA. I looked at HD's in two different counties.