how much live rock do I need to seed dry rocks

viodea · #1 01/02/2008, 12:44 AM

I'm thinking about getting dry rocks from marco rocks for my 120 gal + 40 sump.
How much live rock do I need to seed dry rocks?
How long does it take to turn a dry rock to live in a new system?

thanks

Sk8r · #2 01/02/2008, 12:53 AM

only one piece.

But it takes longer.

If you bring your water to optimum for seawater, it goes much faster than if your water is wrong salinity, temperature, etc.

We used to do it this way---1 lb dry sand, 1-2 lbs rock per gallon, all lifeless, then one live rock. Takes a couple of months before things really enliven enough for fish, again, dependent on water quality. Up to 8 months before you really can't tell the difference between having started with base rock. If I were doing it this way, I'd go to a place that sells really first class live rock, order as little as possible, and here's the heresy which you really may want to debate with others, and maybe not go for...I wouldn't cure it. I'd just rinse it in tank water and put it right in. A little dieoff on a single rock won't hurt; as much life, including hitchhikers, as you can preserve is all to the good.
You may want to debate that---but unless the rock is impossibly grungy, I'm not keen on killing all the hitchhikers.

mattjfishman · #3 01/02/2008, 01:29 PM

I was kinda wondering the same as I will be going today to get some lr to put in my tank with the base rock.

sw1tched · #4 01/02/2008, 02:52 PM

I filled my tank with dry rock & bought a couple pieces of LR off people selling off their whole tank. worked great, now I have about 150 lbs of LR in my display. There was minimal die off & all the critters were brought with.
-Joe

viodea · #5 01/02/2008, 04:23 PM

Sounds great. I can go with quality rather than quantity with my limited budgets now.

spike78 · #6 01/02/2008, 04:34 PM

I used about 35# of live rock to seed my 200# of Marco rock. I cooked them in rubbermaid tubs for about 3 months with biweekly water changes. I would really recommend cooking the marco rocks outside of your tank as they leech nasty stuff for several weeks and leech phosphates for several months. This was my experience.

viodea · #7 01/02/2008, 05:33 PM

How to "cook" them?

bkoz · #8 01/02/2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spike78
I used about 35# of live rock to seed my 200# of Marco rock. I cooked them in rubbermaid tubs for about 3 months with biweekly water changes. I would really recommend cooking the marco rocks outside of your tank as they leech nasty stuff for several weeks and leech phosphates for several months. This was my experience.

This was my experiance as well. I used 1/2 Marco 1/2 LR and it worked great but for the first couple of months I had major hair algae outbreaks from the phosphates even using ro water. I would definatley cook the Marco first if I used it again but other than that its awsome rock.

viodea · #9 01/02/2008, 05:49 PM

wouldn't it be the same if I had nothing in the tank right now?

Mouse · #10 01/02/2008, 10:12 PM

I plan on doing this myself also, however I will be getting a few pounds of LR from diff suppliers to increase the diversity.

Twz · #11 01/02/2008, 10:48 PM

Im now thinking about doing this so i can do the foam liverock mix without having tons of die off you guy know any were i could order this dry rock?
and how much is it?
Student Tight budget.

Twz · #12 01/02/2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sk8r
only one piece.

But it takes longer.

If you bring your water to optimum for seawater, it goes much faster than if your water is wrong salinity, temperature, etc.

We used to do it this way---1 lb dry sand, 1-2 lbs rock per gallon, all lifeless, then one live rock. Takes a couple of months before things really enliven enough for fish, again, dependent on water quality. Up to 8 months before you really can't tell the difference between having started with base rock. If I were doing it this way, I'd go to a place that sells really first class live rock, order as little as possible, and here's the heresy which you really may want to debate with others, and maybe not go for...I wouldn't cure it. I'd just rinse it in tank water and put it right in. A little dieoff on a single rock won't hurt; as much life, including hitchhikers, as you can preserve is all to the good.
You may want to debate that---but unless the rock is impossibly grungy, I'm not keen on killing all the hitchhikers.

And what would be the optimum for seawater be?

viodea · #13 01/02/2008, 11:17 PM

I'm still not sure how to "cook" dry rock. Can someone explain it to me?

thanks

bigtex52 · #14 01/02/2008, 11:38 PM

Salinity 1.024 - 1.026, pH 8.2 - 8.4, temp 78 to 82. Not super critical, just get it into the range and keep it there. (i.e.don't run your salinity at 1.030 or temp at 65, etc. etc.)

bigtex52 · #15 01/02/2008, 11:49 PM

Cooking dry rock is simply putting it in a tub of seawater with a powerhead or two, heater and no light. Keep it in the range of ideal temp and salinity. After 2 to 3 weeks, start doing water changes every week. It's best to have a second tub set up with the new water and 2 or 3 buckets about half full of fresh seawater. As you remove a rock, swish it vigourously in the first bucket, then the next, and finally the third. Then put it in the fresh tub. You won't believe the detritus, dead things, etc. that you will get out of the rock. Also, make sure to keep the tubs covered to maintain darkness.

You could also start skimming at this point to hasten the process along. I have 150 pounds of Marco Rock and love it. It was pretty when it arrived, but you could tell that something that was in it had been alive once, but not recently... It went through a mini-cycle in under 2 weeks and by the end of 2 1/2 months, ammonia and nitrites were 0 and nitrates and phosphates were way down. Your goal is to export as many nutrients (nitrates and phosphates) from the rock as you can before using it in your tank.

Twz · #16 01/02/2008, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigtex52
Cooking dry rock is simply putting it in seawater with a powerhead or two, heater and no light. Keep it in the range of ideal temp and salinity. After 2 to 3 weeks, start doing water changes every week. You could also start skimming at this point to hasten the process. I have 150 pounds of Marco Rock and love it. It was pretty when it arrived, but you could tell that something that was in it had been alive once, but not recently... It went through a cycle in under 3 weeks and by the end of 2 1/2 months, ammonia and nitrites were 0 and nitrates and phosphates were way down. Your goal is to export as many nutrients from the rock as you can before putting it in your tank.

If you do this with the rock then remove it from water for the foam to cure then apply the epoxy rez the nitrates and such wouldn't spike again would they?

viodea · #17 01/03/2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigtex52
Cooking dry rock is simply putting it in a tub of seawater with a powerhead or two, heater and no light. Keep it in the range of ideal temp and salinity. After 2 to 3 weeks, start doing water changes every week. It's best to have a second tub set up with the new water and 2 or 3 buckets about half full of fresh seawater. As you remove a rock, swish it vigourously in the first bucket, then the next, and finally the third. Then put it in the fresh tub. You won't believe the detritus, dead things, etc. that you will get out of the rock. Also, make sure to keep the tubs covered to maintain darkness.

You could also start skimming at this point to hasten the process along. I have 150 pounds of Marco Rock and love it. It was pretty when it arrived, but you could tell that something that was in it had been alive once, but not recently... It went through a mini-cycle in under 2 weeks and by the end of 2 1/2 months, ammonia and nitrites were 0 and nitrates and phosphates were way down. Your goal is to export as many nutrients (nitrates and phosphates) from the rock as you can before using it in your tank.

thanks a lot!

Twz · #18 01/03/2008, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigtex52
Cooking dry rock is simply putting it in a tub of seawater with a powerhead or two, heater and no light. Keep it in the range of ideal temp and salinity. After 2 to 3 weeks, start doing water changes every week. It's best to have a second tub set up with the new water and 2 or 3 buckets about half full of fresh seawater. As you remove a rock, swish it vigourously in the first bucket, then the next, and finally the third. Then put it in the fresh tub. You won't believe the detritus, dead things, etc. that you will get out of the rock. Also, make sure to keep the tubs covered to maintain darkness.

You could also start skimming at this point to hasten the process along. I have 150 pounds of Marco Rock and love it. It was pretty when it arrived, but you could tell that something that was in it had been alive once, but not recently... It went through a mini-cycle in under 2 weeks and by the end of 2 1/2 months, ammonia and nitrites were 0 and nitrates and phosphates were way down. Your goal is to export as many nutrients (nitrates and phosphates) from the rock as you can before using it in your tank.

Sorry but i have tons on questions with this. couldn't you use use fresh water? since the rock has nothing living it it any ways and then just do 100% water changes every few days to make this process quicker and more cost efficient (Cost of salt)?

Rustylugnuts · #19 01/03/2008, 02:20 AM

My inital guess would be yes. This is what is done with portland cement based man made live rock.

The Saltman · #20 01/03/2008, 10:33 AM

I plan on using marco rock and seed 250#'s of it. Couldnt I just used a very small piece of rubble to seed? I know this will take a lot longer, but at least I know I will be pest free. Someone said something about just using corralline shavings for seeding.

Sk8r · #21 01/03/2008, 10:53 AM

I wouldn't use fresh water: the rock will slowly be permeated with it as much as rock can be, certain things will go into solution, and so on.

Re cooking, not cooking: temp should not exceed tank norms of around 80 degrees. Light deprivation is the biggie.

The reason I said no cooking was for the genuinely thriving live rock.

The manmade rock having a load of phosphate and such is another problem, and anything you can do to get the phosphate out of that is a good thing.

All rock tends to bring you some phosphate, which acts as an algae fertilizer [hair algae, etc.]. One thing you can do to get rid of phosphate after your tank gets going and you get that bloom of algae, is to have a potent refugium. Its 24/7 algae have the advantage over the algae in your 8/7 tank. It gets the phosphate and grows like crazy, you divvy up the macro algae [cheato is best] and sell it, and it goes on sucking up the phosphate forever, while algae in your main tank gets rarer and rarer.