Ok...I have been wondering...what to do with my 125 gal

[frankandmaura]

Hi all...

As most of you remember, I had a little issue (flood) with my 125 gal. I have been waiting on doing something, since I have been busy with my new arrival but soon I am going to be ready to try something again.

Now...what should I do is the question?? We have talked about making it a lightly planted FW tank, but as I sit and ponder I am not sure I want to do that now. It is still in the running, but...I am exploring.

What about a FOWLR tank. What is needed? Do I need a skimmer? Do I need much flow? (if so I am the stupidist person alive - since I sold my G2 and my 4 Hydors 4's) I do not want a sump...I want this all self contained...and low maintenence.

My sand is still in the tank...it has been under water for about 2 months now (not heated - just sitting there). Is it still good? It is only about 18 months old.

I don't want to do corals again...just nice fish (I would love a trigger, a puffer and tangs and maybe some nice wrasses)! I would possibly think about an anenome with clowns (but my lighting is suspect 4x48" VHO).

Do the lights need to be on for FOWLR tanks for very long or just for viewing??

Please share your knowledge and give me some suggestions! I would love to hear what you think...

[fatrip]

yes you'll need a skimmer and you'll need moderate flow. i would take the sand out and wash it to get the ditrus out of it, but it still can be used. yes you want abuot the same light cycle as before maybe a little less. i would do 8 hours. but if you are going to have those fish in that size tank you ware going to need a good skimmer. and i dont think they make a HOB that will accomidate that much of a bioload. but i could be wrong. low maintance and self contained dont really go togeather ...lol...low maintance would be having a sump and doing all the filtration and skimming in there. makes everything easyer and all at one point. but im sure others will have some more input because i dont think i had ever really had a FOWLR tank.

[frankandmaura]

Hmmm...anyone want to help drill and plumb my tank? I need a designer

I want whatever I do to be low risk...I can't afford another flood.

[fatrip]

i could help you out with that. it would depend on how you want to do the over flows. do you want a over flow box in the tank, or a tube, i can take a picture of mine tonight to show you want i mean by tube.

[frankandmaura]

I really don't have a very good idea of how those internal overflows work.

The tank would have to be drilled in place and I would want a good return system...maybe into a spraybar?

[fatrip]

spraybars are usualy for close loop systems because the amount of water pressure that is needed for the spray bar to work properly you would need tons of flow through your sump and that is not what you want. ill put togeather some pics of idea tonight for you.

[frankandmaura]

Vinny...I would greatly appreciate it if we could work together to set this thing up (Can we drill the tank in place?). I want it as risk free as possible.

I guess I would need a decent sump (maybe just a standard 20 gal tank), a good return pump and a new skimmer DaveVG want to sell me mine back if I do this...LOL!! I also need a few powerheads...maybe 2 Hydor 4's??

Anyone have a recommendation on a decent skimmer for a 125 gal?? Hows the Octopus 200?? Good deal at $180?

As far as a bottom...I am thinking of just a thin layer of crushed coral or coarse sand...is this a good idea?

[jacksonpt]

Skimmer - if you're careful about stocking and feeding, you shouldn't need a skimmer. Depending on the fish you chose, fish aren't generally as sensitive to water quality as are corals, so you have more room for error. Obviously tangs are a relatively delicate family, but you get my point. I kept a trigger, a lion, a clown, and an eel in a 75g FOWLR with no skimmer once upon a time. They were all relatively small so the 4' tank wasn't an issue... FOWLRs can be great tanks.

Flow - Flow in a FOWLR is important for some of the same reasons it is in a reef. Good flow keeps the water fresher and helps prevent "crap" from building up on the sand, in the rocks, etc. As such, you'll want moderate flow in the tank.

Sand - I'm not sure about the sand. My thought is that all the bacteria/life that normally lives in LS would have died from the tank not being used/heated, so you'll have to seed it and allow the tank to recycle. Is it useable? Yes, but it's not really live.

Lights - While you don't need intense lighting like you do for corals, you'll want enough to sustain the life on the LR. As for timing... you'll want to keep it somewhat in sync with a normal light cycle (sun up to sun down).

Anemone - True, it's not a coral, but in most people's book, keeping an anemone makes it a reef. This is primarily because all the things that are true of corals hold true with anemones... high flow, pristine water, strong light, stable params, etc. IMO, if you're looking for simplicity, adding an anemone is a step in the wrong direction.

[03Mach]

If you are doing a FOWLR I think you can get away without a skimmer, but a skimmer always helps. There are a few hob skimmers that are supposed to be OK. The Remora Pro is rated for 40-120 gallons, so I think you can get away with using something like that. Using a hob skimmer would pretty much eliminate the need for a sump wouldn't it?

[frankandmaura]

Anyone have a good idea for a sump (not too expensive), but I don't want to use a rubbermaid container again?

[Dave VG]

Sorry frank everything is in use. If it wasen't i would gladly sell it back ...lol... An anenome would require a good light source.

[Dave VG]

Oh and as for a sump make one out of a twenty long and do a remote deep sand bed for trates. And yes i would also help if needed Frank.

[fatrip]

first frank vinny is my dad...lol...j/k...yes the octo would do well but i would look on the furoms here for a used skimmer. some of the time you can get a good one for about 130-150 shipped. as far as sumps go i would build one. that is the easyest way to get what you want out of it. i would use the sand you have just wash it out. sand IMO is just as important as LR to harbor bacteria, but courser sand will also harbor ditrus as well can cause nitrate problems. i can also give you sump ideas when i send you the over flow ideas.

[frankandmaura]

Vince (sorry about that) and Dave and others,
You guys are awesome! This is going to be the Zoo build #2!

Not really...since I don't have the $$, but anyway...

I am not sure I agree on the sand being as important...I know people that do BB tanks and don't even have a remote sand bed...I mean I guess I could keep it and keep it deep, but I want it to be easy to maintain...

[Piazzon12]

I know a # of people who run FOWLR with no sump or skimmer and these tanks are fairly heavily stocked. With enough live rock and regular water changes, you shouldnt have any problems. That's what I would do... and if the need really arises, a HOB should be fine, even if it's not rated for 120. It will continuously pull out gunk, and the LR should take care of the rest

[frankandmaura]

Thanks Adam...I think the problem is the "regular" water changes...me not so good with that

I think if we can drill the tank and do this right, I will be a lot more comfortable with all of this...otherwise I go FW and say to heck with it all!

[fatrip]

i didnt mean for the sand to be deep...just there for astetics, not to surve as a deep sand bed nitrate remover from anorobic bacteria but with the same principle as the live rock it harbors the same bacteria even with the sand only being an inch or so deep. with the hight of your tank i wouldnt want to do regular water changes from the tank. plus with the sump you will be albe to do things like the RDSB, so you wont have to do as many water changes maybe only once a month or even less. that is why i suggested the sump because you will be able to achive the most maintance free setup this way. and it will look better without the clutter in the tank. And the wholes in the back are easy but i would sugest pulling the tank out and running water over it when it is drilled. i have drilled one while just squrting water on the bit and sucking it up with papertowles as it drips down but it was very nervracking...lol...

[frankandmaura]

I am not sure we can pull the tank out (if you remember it is built in the wall and I think it would be a BIG headache to get it out...but we can take a look).

When you come over we can figure it out...

[fatrip]

oh....well im sure if we can put a rubber maid tube under the edge to catch the water it would be alright to do it there.

[frankandmaura]

Vinny, Do you have an auto-top off?? I used to just use a line hooked to my RO/DI with a float valve on the sump...but I always worried about that. I think I would need some type of safety valve, so I can sleep at night Although the evaporation should be less with less lighting and less water flow than I had.

We can talk about it more also...

[fatrip]

that is how i have my auto top of but aparantly it wares down you DI faster, big explanation that i can tell you in person...lol...but i would do a para-"something" pump with and auto topoff switch connected to a 55 gallon drum of water.

[frankandmaura]

ok...I just called the guy from Creature Comforts to ask how much a 30 gal long is for a sump (first of all he was asking me what I meant by sump), hmmm....

The I asked if the sides were tempered and he said no, why? I said because I was thinking of drilling it and he said oh, 80% break. Then I told him I was planning on drilling my 125 and he said, same goes for the bigger tanks (I am scared!). I don't want to be replacing my 125! Is this a bad idea?

I mean I trust ya Vince, but if 80% break...are we taking our chances?

[Bobtail1075]

80 percent.. NO WAY.. I have only heard of a couple ever breaking. I had never done the drilling before and I drilled 4 holes in a 90 I had, then I drilled 2 holes in my new 44 pentagon tank. I think as long as your glass is not tempered and you use plenty of water to cool it down. I really would not worry all that much about it.. As long as you take time to do it. more like 90 percent of tanks don't break.

[RyanM]

I have drilled dozens of holes. Not one ever broke. With that being said, its always a risk. Even if every precaution is taken, small imperfection in the glass that under normal use would have never hurt a thing can cause it to crack if drilled. Like I said the risk is low but its there on every tank. When I was a kid in autoshop the instuctor was ever so slightly tapping on the rear window of a gorgeous camaro with a plastic screwdriver. Not hard at all. Just kinda talking to us and tapping it as he spoke. You can guess what happened. SMASH!!! I was standing right there and would have bet a million dollars that that little piece of plastic would never have broken it.

If your affraid to break it dont drill it.

[03Mach]

Usually what you are fighting is thermal expansion stress. The drill bit will end up heating the glass in a given area so much that it will expand by .02%-.05%. While these numbers seem small, that expansion pressing against the other 95% of the sheet of glass will be enough force to cause a failure. The force that glass expands at is often several thousand pounds per square inch. Thermal expansion can be minimized by co-heating the entire area to a higher temp, and minimizing the drill area temp with a coolant reservoir. The trick is going to be creating that reservoir while the glass is vertical. Other ways to help reduce the risk, is by using very little pressure about (about 10-18 lbs, let the bit do the cutting, not your force), and keep the RPMs low. Both of those thing will help reduce the heat caused by friction. If you can come up with a way to keep a coolant pooled up, and follow the low pressure and low RPMs, your risk will be greatly reduce. You could always go to a glass show and get a piece of scrap glass (with the equivalent thickness of your tank) to practice on. It's always good to see what the process is before you start on the final project anywho.
Another thing to consider when drilling an aquarium is that you are in fact damaging the structural integrity of the tank. The tank was engineered without that hole, so that pane will not be as sound as it once was. This doesn't really pose much of a threat, but after having the first accident with the tank, a second one would suck!