Frogspawn Question

[Gregr5766]

Hello. My 7 year old daughter and I just set up a 14 gallon biocube aquarium. We have about 22 lbs of live rock, 7 live corals, a clown fish, Valentini puffer, and a hermit crab. The tank has been up and running for about 4 weeks now and lately we have been getting a thin layer of lime green algae on the glass and on some of live rocks that are closer to the top. We have been having the lights on for about 10 hours a day and have since cut it back to 6-8 hours. Towards the bottom we have a 4 branched frog spawn that was looking very well up until the algae started. Since then, I have noticed some of the green algae on the individual tentacles of the frogspawn and have noticed that it does not come out as full anymore. One of the 4 branched is fully retracted and has some green algae on top of it. Does anyone have any ideas as to what i can do for this live coral? Thank You.

[DanInSD]

OK, let's start up at the beginning.

- 14 gallon is waaaay too small for most clowns and definitely too small for *any* puffer. Also keep in mind that 22 lbs of rock displaces lots of water! So you've probably got an 8 gal aquarium with two large fish... not good...

- Sharpnosed puffers are notoriously un-reef-safe, BTW.

- What are your water parameters? NH3/NO2/NO3/Ca/Alk/PO4/pH?

- Lighting? Flow?

- With most new tanks, you'll have some algae issues. Might just take time.

Dan

[Gregr5766]

Thank You DanINSD. I appreciate your feedback. I am new to salt watter reefs so please bear with me.

- I hear you on the rock. That is a very good point. Since it is already in there, should I leave it or take some of it out? The pieces are rather large so it might look weird if I remove alot of it. Any suggestions?

- The two fish we have (Clown) and (Valentini puffer) are very small. Is it ok to keep them if they are small? or should we look for others?

- When you say Sharpnosed puffers are notoriously un-reef safe, can you please explain. Are you satying that they will harm the live coral?

- Water parameters. I don't think I have the ability to give you all the parameters you are asking for. The fish shop sold me some strips that allow me to check Nitrate, Nitrite, Water hardness, and Alkilinity. I check it about twice a week and they seem to be in the acceptable range. The tank has been up for about 4 weeks and I did a 4 gallon water change last Saturday. I get the salt water from the fish shop. They sell filtered sea water from the Scripts Institute in San Diego.

- Lighting is 2 power compact fluorescent lamps, 10,000 K and Actinic

Flow - Good

- Live Corals - frogspawn (1), Sunpolyp (1), mushroom (1), Pulsating Xenia (1), leather (1), Open Brain (1), bubble (1). Any idea as to why one of the 4 branches on the frogspawn has retracted and looks quite sick??

Thank you so much for your input. We are new to this hobby and greatly appreciate your help.

[rhythmicfire]

Alright, well welcome to the saltwater scene
A 14 gallon tank in my opinion is more than enough room for most clownfish. You may want to do a little of googling to find out how large your species of clownfish will get. A maroon or a clarkii clown will likely grow to be too large for the tank. Also bear in mind that you cannot mix species of clowns, especially in a small tank.
I do admit however that a 14 cube is a bit small for a puffer. Granted it may fit in there now, when it gets larger be prepared to pass it onto another aquarist, or upgrade to a larger tank. Some puffers are considered reef safe, such as the dogface puffer; only it gets to be over a foot long! I personally would remove the puffer to save trouble in the future, and go with a pair of clownfish (A. ocellaris, and A. percula are my favorites). I am sure your daughter would delight in this.
Saying your flow is "good" is a bit ambiguous. "Good" means different things to different people. How many gallons/hour are going through your tank? What kind of pumps/powerheads, and how many do you have?
All corals need flow in order to facilitate waste expulsion. Frogspawn requires just enough flow to cause the tentacles to sway back and forth. If frogpawn is not opening up, that means it is irritated. Also when algae begins to grow ON corals, it is a bad sign. Did you let your tank cycle? If not, this would explain the algae problem.

Best, A

[stubble88]

read books

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...ory_Code=Books

[DanInSD]

I also recommend books -- specifically "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner. Also, see the plethora of information on his site, http://www.wetwebmedia.com.

Rock: The amount of rock in a tank is a matter of personal preference. One or two pounds per gallon of water is the usual range. I was merely making the point that your tank is much less than 14 gal total volume, given the amount of rock. I personally tend to lean more towards one pound per gallon, but make sure it's branched rock that is light for its volume with a big surface area.

Substrate: You don't mention this. I am of the "deep sand bed" mindset with about two pounds per gallon in my tanks (about 4"). You can also go "bare or almost bare", of course.

Fish: I'm of the preference to not put a fish in a tank if it can't be sustained long-term. This is for a few reasons -- the "mental health" of the fish, and... have you ever tried getting a fish out of a tank that's full of rock and coral, using a net? Good luck! You will likely have to disassemble the tank to get these fish out. http://www.liveaquaria.com has pretty reasonable, conservative estimates for minimum tank sizes. So, for clownfish, it's 20-30 gal depending on the species; and for the Valentini it's 30 (personally I think this is low -- they get 6" or bigger). If I were you, I'd check out their "Nano fish" section. For a 14 gallon, I'd do a clown goby, a firefish or two, and a shrimp goby / pistol shrimp pair (the latter requires a sand bed with adequate rubble/shell building materials).

Puffer: sharp-nosed puffers like the Valentini are notorious fin- and coral-nippers. They *will* damage corals. Trust me, been there, tried that. It's a time bomb.

Water parameters: Get yourself a good set of test kits (e.g. Salifert) immediately. The "dip sticks" are basically useless. Any measurable ammonia or nitrite is toxic to fish and invertebrates. Nitrates should be zero but less than 10ppm is probably OK. Any measurable phosphate is almost certainly contributing to your algae woes. Keep in mind that some algae is normal for a new tank, and one of the problems with small tanks is that your "algae eating" choices are very limited (too small for tangs, blennies, rabbitfish, etc). Some snails may help.

Keep on reading! You've got lots to learn.

Dan

[DanInSD]

Oh, two more things -- you realize that the frogspawn (and the open brain, for that matter) is an LPS (large-polyped stony) coral, not a soft coral, right? Might want to ask in that forum once you've got your info straight. And, you didn't mention your feeding and supplementation regimen -- LPS require target feeding for maximal growth.

[DanInSD]

Oh, and -- yikes! Those sun polyps require specialized targeted feeding and are "advanced" corals. The bubble coral is also an LPS. That many different corals in that small of a water volume is probably a disaster waiting to happen (chemical warfare). The mushrooms and leathers put out lots of fun chemicals, and the LPS tend to have big sweeper tentacles. What's your filtration look like? I hope you have a protein skimmer and are running activated carbon!

Dan

[RBTA]

IMHO depending on the clownfish species it should be fine in there. If it is a True Percula or a False Percula, being that there are on the smaller side of clownfish, then they would be fine in a 14gallon. There have been Breeding pairs of Percs in 10gals. Although I wouldn't add too much more in the way of fish though, maybe a smaller goby.

[GandHaquariums]

Hi,and welcome to reef keeping i hope you take in all this info, i know its all overwhelming in the begining. It sounds to me like your LFS "local fish store" enjoyed seeing you come in the door. I think and others will probably agree this is where a ton of people get a bad taste in there mouth and give up. It would be like me selling you a whole bunch of tropical plants but not telling you they would die in the winter if you didn't bring them in. But don't give up! You made a great choice posting here! If you listen to what these guys tell you you'll be happy in the end. Good luck and once again welcome.
~Richard

[ManilaMan]

hi! i think you should let the tank to fully cycle first, 4 weeks with fishes and a lot of corals is not ideal.did you get all those stuff in on one Fish store? if yes, please go to other LFS.

patience, reseach and asking questions is the key, rc members almost always are helpfull, you can also hook up with local hobbyist, they might go to your place and help you.

welcome and goodluck!

[DewDropPony]

Agreed! This is the best place to be for finding information on your mini-reef.

You jumped straight into the deep end but don't let that scare you off. Just get a routine going and STICK TO IT.

Example:

Mondays: 25% weekly water change
feed fish
feed corals
Test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, sg, etc...

Tuesday: scrape of algae from glass
feed fish

Wensday: check to make sure all equipment is in working order
feed corals
feed fish

Thursday: test for pH and Nitrate again
feed fish

Friday:
feed corals
feed fish

Saturday: feed fish
wipe down sides and hood of tank

Sunday: feed fish
feed corals

Testing the water and doing water changes are two of the most important things in reef keeping.

Get rid of your test strips. Get saltwater liquid master test kit. These will provide you with pretty much everything you need test-wise. They cost more than the test strips though. Petsmart price matches so if you print off a ad for the AFI mater test kit, from doctors foster & smith.com, you will get it for that price.

Also get a refractometer, it tells you how much salt is in the water. Don't rely on a hydrometer in a tank that small with those fish. They aren't accurate.

You can keep buying the pre-made salt water, but you will find that it will get expensive over time. Once you realize this you should look into getting a RO/DI system. Unfortunatly, they are expensive upfront. But this whole hobby is expensive soo....

Welcome to the hobby!