No luck w/ Mandarin - I give up.

[Scooter12ga]

Tank Specs: 1+ year old 55g reef display with healthy soft, lps, and sps, 30g sump/fuge, 65-70lbs rock, HUGE ball of chaeto and rock in sump, tons of cope, amphi, and isopods (good iso's).

Temp 79-80f
pH 8.2-8.3
NH3/4 = 0
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 0

First off, how fast can a acceptably healthy Mandarin starve to death? Certainly not 2-3 days, right?

I specifically designed my setup in hopes of having a psychedelic mandarin when the tank was mature and stable (which it seems to be at this point.)

Our city's best dealer got a few good looking and active mandarins 2 weeks ago and so I took one home and drip acclimated it for 2 hours.

Day 1 - Swimming around, checking out the tank glass and rocks, not sure if eating.
Day 2 - Lethargic, sitting on sand, not much movement, almost certainly not eating.
Day 3 early morning - Dead

I tested all levels normal but did a prophylactic water change just in case.

I talked to my dealer, he says I did nothing wrong and "sometimes this just happens, mandarins are sketchy fish." Being the good dealer that he is, he ordered a few on his next order and saved the fattest happiest one for me (Free of charge).

When I picked up this new fish it was beautiful and fat. I took it home and drip acclimated for 2 hours again.

Day 1 - Swimming around, checking out the tank glass and rocks, not sure if eating.
Day 2 - Lethargic in the AM so I moved him to fuge so he could be up-close and personal with lots of pods, in the PM started moving around more and holding his dorsal fins up high and proud, not sure if eating but looking better "I think this is going to be a good one."
Day 3 early morning - Dead

What the heck did I do wrong? These fish are too beautiful and I absolutely will not try another one again.

[moogoomoogoo]

THats too fast to starve to death. Ever have copper in the tank? They are sensitive to that. I am a believer that the handling of a fish up to the LFS is the most important factor in rapid death. I would try another source.

[Scooter12ga]

Never had copper in the tank, and I use RO/DI w/ 0 tds too, nevertheless I had it in mind to test for copper as well.

Even if I had detectable copper, I would see symptoms in my shrimp, crabs, and snails right?

[Valab]

You have any other fish in the tank?

[darkcirca]

I had that same issue with my first 2 mandarin's. One came from That Pet Place, the other from a local store here. Neither lasted, one was found dead, the other (huge porker) just vanished, never found again. I've got a third now, bought it off a local and it was pretty skinny. Figured it stood a better chance in my tank than sitting in this tiny tank at his place wasting away.
Well I got that mandarin over the summer, he's plumped up a bit, eats frozen bloodworms as well, and is still kicking. Strange though that the first two just died out of no where.

[King-Kong]

My thoughts: something dying that fast was caused by the shipping.. maybe between supplier and LFS, or before that.

If you have thriving corals in your tank, a fish dying that fast was doomed before you even bought him.

This is why its best to wait a few days for new arrivals.

[Scooter12ga]

I'm thinking a shipping/supply issue is the root cause as well, though the second fish waited at the store for about 3 days because I was out of town for Thanksgiving. Oh well, I'll stick to hardier fish in the future.

[ezcompany]

let your dealer hold the fish and see if they don't die while in his care.

[snorvich]

The issue is that most Mandarins are cyanide caught and simply have no chance at making it. The way to check for health is note if they are swimming around and picking on live rock. If they are, they are probably good and if not, probably not. I have 3 Mandarins who are doing well (years not months) but it took 5 to get those 3. The ones I have will breed but I do not attempt to raise the fry (yet).

[vito is hooked]

I have a fat female, had her just about a year now.no corals yet tons of live rock and she is thriving on frozen brine and cyclopez just got lucky i guess.

[Scooter12ga]

So basically it sounds like if they're any bit lethargic at the store then pass on them.

[vito is hooked]

I dont know if i should indroduce tigger pods.if it aint broke dont fix it.

[Sk8r]

try liveaquaria.com: 14 day guarantee on their fish and I've never had a bad shipment. This was a dying fish when you got it.

[Scooter12ga]

Thanks everybody for your reassurance. I'm not sure if I can stomach losing another one though. I'll wait a while, make sure everything in my tank is stable, and maybe try adding one in another year or so.

[NirvanaFan]

It doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong. I second the liveaquaria idea. I've ordered a few times from them and never had any problems. My mandarin is fat and healthy in my 75g with a 30g sump/fuge and 85 pounds of rock, so you should be able to support one fine in your tank.

[guardrail]

yah sounds like a starving fish from the start. with mine i watched him for like an hour a day at the store for a couple days. Made sure everything was perfect. watched his day to day attitude and there was not a moment i saw him being slow and lethargic. I picked mine because he was following other fish around checking them out wile grazing. I figure if a grazing fish has time to chase a neon goby around a tank then its not too bad off hes been with me about a week now and he is fattening up now and knows prepared food time because he thrashes his head against the tank wall when its around that time...

[customanimalart]

Sorry for your poor losses. I got lucky when I bought mine because he has lived for over a year now and eats anything that I put into the tank.
If you buy at a LFS, find a nice fat one if you can, as well as a very active one, and have them hold it for you for a couple of weeks. Make sure it eats and stays happy and healthy. Then take it home. I would visit regularly to make sure they don't "switch him out with another" though. You never know. Find a specific marking that you can remember so you can identify "your" fish when you go back.

Don't give up, they are wonderful fish. Good Luck!

[snorvich]

Whoa! If you are thinking about adding a second one, be sure it is of the opposite sex or their will be world war IV.

[zemuron114]

they were definitely juiced. Tell your LFS to find another supplier for them. if you are having bad luck with them, then im sure everyone else is as well who buys from that store.

[itsthesong]

Sounds like they were caught with cyanide. I used to see this a whole lot on research cruises in the pacific. Cyanide catches have a high mortaility rate, it's poison after all. It destroys fish, the reef, everything. The only thing worse is dynamite fishing, which, when you are on a dive and you hear it, sounds like nothing could survive.

[yoboyjdizz]

Originally posted by Sk8r
try liveaquaria.com: 14 day guarantee on their fish and I've never had a bad shipment. This was a dying fish when you got it.

I agree, when dealing with delicate fish this is the place i would try first. Not just because of the guarantee but the way they handle and take care of their livestock before shipping them out to you.

[customanimalart]

saltwaterfish.com also has a guarantee.