New Tank Diary! 70 Tall (36x18x25)

[tibbs2]

The tank is coming along nicely. For the return, have you considered using locline?

[Philby]

Originally posted by tibbs2
The tank is coming along nicely. For the return, have you considered using locline?

I've thought about it - but I'm hoping that most of my flow will be coming from my CL so I don't think I'll need to direct my return at all. (and I'm going to have a canopy on there eventually so you won't be able to see the white plumbing anyway)

anyone have any ideas about my pump? Do I just need to jump up to a dart? (or higher?)

[Philby]

No one has any thoughts about my pump?

Even with head loss from the plumbing (90s, 45s, unions, ball valves) I would think that 2000GPH should be sufficient, but I just don't see how I'm getting that much. Unless the locline setup I've got is really creating that much more pressure that it can't handle getting up that extra 8" and most of the flow is going to the bottom 2 outputs.

I'm just so confused cause I've seen so many setups with like 8 outputs on a CL, and granted they're using a dart and mostly the outputs are about the same level - but I would think that a snapper should be able to handle 4 outlets and provide all the flow I need???

Anyone have a Dart that is not in use or that can be removed from their system for a couple hours so I can plug it into mine and see if that would be enough flow or if I need to go even bigger?

Any other recommendations on a CL pump other than the sequence line? (I know they're flow rated, but there shouldn't be much head pressure at all since it's a CL!!)

[tibbs2]

I don't know much about pumps.

In the picture it doesn't look like the return is submerged. That will make quite a bit of splashing noise and create quite a bit of salt spray won't it?

[Philby]

You're right the return was not submerged - but my tank was only about 1/3 full of water in those pictures...

I got some ideas from the equipment forum and I think I have some ideas on how to fix my situation (hopefully), but I'm gonna have a lot of extra locline I think! looks like I'll be able to use it on my return after all.

Anyone got an extra 3/4" threaded connectors? (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...ct~LL1319.html) or maybe placing an order for anything that I can add this too (so I don't have to place an online order for $2)

[dascharisma]

If I understand the pictures correctly, it looks like half of your flow is split multiple ways and the other half is not. I think that you are getting good flow out of the right hand side because the return plumbing is not split a bunch of ways and there is very little restriction. The left side is restricted and split so very little water is coming out of each output.

Keep in mind that the water will exit the lowest output that it can find. That means that your low holes are pushing all the flow and the upper ones aren't getting squat. The only way around that is to push more water than the lower holes can handle which will cause the water level in the loc line to rise and exit the higher holes.


If it were me I would forget about all that loc line and just have two outputs on the closed loops, one on the left and one on the right. Besides, you need to concentrate your flow on the bottom or I promise you will have settling issues.


Brad

[musty baby]

Exactly. I mentioned that you would get less than half of the flow out of your left side out of the upper two outputs. I'd branch your locline on the right side. Two outputs on each side.

You will get flow out of the other two outputs on the left once you've got water in the tank, I'm sure, but not like you'd like to have.

And holy crap, man, YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT THE CL PUMP. Your pvc may be supporting it, but your BACK GLASS is supporting your pvc. The one thing you absolutely do not want is torque on a pane of glass with holes in it! What will happen if you accidentally nudge it too hard when working under the tank? Support it as soon as possible.

Brad's right, but I don't think avoiding settling on the tank bottom is as important an issue as he does, and doubt, with as high as the CL returns are on the back glass, that undirected flow will do that much to help settling in the corners anyway.

Get everything supported, get it filled, and play with it for a while. Nothing's glued in for a reason

Looking good

[dascharisma]

Originally posted by ryansholl


Brad's right, but I don't think avoiding settling on the tank bottom is as important an issue as he does, and doubt, with as high as the CL returns are on the back glass, that undirected flow will do that much to help settling in the corners anyway.

I agree with Ryan that the undirected CL returns might not prevent settling, and that you might need to direct some loc line to the bottom. However, I have run 4 bare bottom tanks, and am currently setting up a 5th, and I can assure you that if you really want excellent results with SPS you can't allow settling in the tank. Settling crap will just decompose and release nutrients to your water column. If things collect on the bottom it means that that stuff won't find its way to the skimmer, which is your primary means of getting that stuff out of your tank.

Also you won't see the negative results of settling right away. In my experience it takes 6-9 months + before you realize how bad the problem is. My maintainence account is a great example of that. It is nearly an identical setup as my prop tank, with the one difference being the flow at the bottom of the tank. The results are dramatic. In the end there will always be some settling. What is important is the size of the area in relation to the water volume in the tank.

Brad

[musty baby]

Originally posted by dascharisma
In the end there will always be some settling.

I thought you were advocating 100% absolute cleanliness. We're on the same page.

[Philby]

Thanks guys - after speaking to both ryan and brad and reading their posts - I've almost completely abandoned the locline and love it! so now I've got a bunch of extra locline if anyone needs any...

What I did was first remove all the locline on the left side except for 1 length of about 3 links and a nozzle. Well I was getting good flow, but there was still a dead spot in front of the overflow box. So I switched the 2 outputs, snaked the locline on the R side around the overflow and pointed it directly at the bottom of the tank. Now I've got almost no dead spots, and the top of the water is still agitated even when the tank is full! So I think of got my flow issue handled.

now onto my next issue...LEAKS! Just about anywhere I've got a threaded connection (bulkheads/pump) I'm getting a leak, some worse than others (most are a drip, my bulkhead in the overflow is pretty bad...) What can I do to remedy this?

I've got about 1 circle of teflon tape around each bulkhead, which I wasn't sure if that would be enough, but I couldn't get the connections much tighter with much more tape. (I need to get another pair of pliers).

Do you guys suggest I just put a lot more tape on it, or should I use silicone??

[dascharisma]

I had TONS of problems with threaded connections. I tried some connections a half dozen times with regular teflon tape (tons of tape, a tiny amount, and everything in between), and still had leaks. I ended up getting a teflon paste that worked well. Only once did it not seal on the first attempt. Since telflon paste lubricates when you are threading, there is a risk for over-tightening. I actually cracked the female threaded connection on my chiller using the paste, so be careful using it.

Don't use silicone.

Brad

[Philby]

Glad I'm not the only one!

where can I acquire some of this paste, or do you have any leftover?

anyone else got any suggestions??

[dascharisma]

You can pick some up from me tomorrow if you want. I am hanging out with Mark, so you should just stop by tomorrow night.


Brad

[Philby]

Sweet - I'll do that!

[Philby]

For CUC what do you all suggest?

I'm thinking 10-12 astraea (same as turbo?) and 2 dozen ceriths to clean up their waste. No Nas cause I've got no sand.

Then a pep shrimp? or skunk? which one's clean fish?

I think I'm gonna stay away from crabs cause they just knock over frags, and urchins cause they pick up and carry around frags when they're not knocking them over removing all the corraline off the rocks...

Is that a good number of snails, and should I get 2 shrimp, 1 each of the above? or just 1?

Any other suggestions?

I think eventually I'm gonna set up a small 5.5 nano with some sexy shrimp and pom-pom crabs - so I'll leave the ornamental/interesting inverts for that tank. It'll be near my nano discussed below for clowns/anems and probably share a sump - but this is a couple years away probably (or quicker if I come into some $$ )

[Philby]

This is copied from GIRS for all of you who don't get over there.

Alright guys (and girls) - my display should have water in it this weekend - and my QT is just waiting for my first livestock purchase! I'm looking for some advice on order to add and if my 10 gallon QT will be OK for all.

Here's my first thoughts at a fish list and stocking order (for a 70 gallon display, 3ft long, so no Tangs...barebottom so no sand dwellers) each item on the list would be QT'd together (if there's more than 1). I'm going to have mostly SPS for coral (some zoas/rics/LPS too) and probably a clam or 2, so if anything jumps out as not compatible with the other fish on the list or SPS/Clams let me know.

- Pair of Clowns
- Lawnmower (sailfin) blenny
- 3-5 chromis or anthias
- mandarin
- maybe a firefish or goby

Clowns - I think I'm gonna just get a pair of regular 'ol orange Ocs or Percs. I promise this is completely unrelated to the Nemo effect, but orange is my favorite color and so I'll probably have lots of it in my tank. Eventually I'd like to set up another tank (20-40 gallons) with a pair of clowns and a nem, so then I'll get something a little more exotic when it comes to clowns.

Lawnmower Blenny - This is a personality choice as they're a pretty dull looking fish. I've heard they may nip at SPS/Clams - anyone have any thoughts on that? Also I'm going for mostly SPS, so hopefully I won't have a bunch of cyano or hair algae (hah!) will that cause any problems or are they fine eating prepared food?

3-5 chromis or anthias - I know the chromis are easy to keep and a cool schooling fish - but LOTS of people have them, and I'm not a huge fan of the color. Anthias on the other hand are harder to keep, but the colors are stunning. Plus many of them have some purple/pink - and so hopefully my GF will take some interest if I've got some colors she likes in the tank. I know that some anthias require much larger tanks than mine (125+), but according to liveaquaria there are many that require 50+ gallons, anyone care to confirm/refute their tank requirements and thoughts with the rest of my fish list? I know to get 1 male and the rest female of the anthias to spread out his aggression.

Mandarin - I will only add this once my tank is 6+ months old and if I have PLENTY of pods. I plan on having some extra LR in my sump, as well as building a rock pile in the display in a corner somewhere to encourage pod growth. I also know many people like having wrasses in their tanks, and I can't have both in a tank this size so the Mandarin wins for now.

goby or firefish - If everyone thinks this is well within my tanks "limit" I will probably also add something like a clown goby or helfrichi firefish perhaps before/after/with the mandarin.

Well time for you guys to give me your thoughts. Am I thinking too many fish? Am I WAY under my stocking limits? Any immediate compatibility/environment concerns jump out at anyone?

Thanks for your opinions!

[Philby]

The teflon paste that Brad suggested worked great on my threaded connections and so they are all leak free so far!

However I'm still having 1 leak issue - and I'm not sure how to fix it...

It's on one of the bulkheads in the overflow - and the leak is not coming from "inside" the bulkhead at the threaded connection - it seems to be coming from the "outside" between the bulkhead and the glass. Ive tightened it as much as I can by hand (but it's in an awkard place, so I can't get as much leverage as on the others) and the rubber gasket inside the tank SEEMS to be sealed well, but it's still leaking.

Any ideas? Should I attempt to tighten it with a wrench? (if I can find one big enough to fit around the "nut" of a 1.5" bulkhead...)

[Philby]

Alright - so my dad came over and was able to turn the bulkhead just a smidgen or two tighter - and it was enough to fix the leak! So now I just have 1 small leak where the drain goes into the sump, that I think I can fix with a couple more applications of PVC cement.

next problem - my durso. It's pulling a lot of air along with the water - which is causing a really loud "glugging" noise in my sump from the air bubbles. Is this because the hole at the top of my standpipe is too big? or because it's too small? (I didn't want to make it any bigger in case i needed to figure out a way to make it smaller!) anyone?

[Philby]

Also I finally got a mod to change the name of my thread so it accurately reflects my tank!

[got2lb]

how big is the hole in your durso? When I made mine I used a small drill bit maybe 1/16" or 1/8" can't remember for sure. But I basically drilled a hole and waited to see if it helped then drilled another etc.... until it got to the right point where it wasn't "flushing" and making a ton of noise.

[Philby]

I actually did it with a dremel bit - it was pretty small - not sure what size tho.

the thing is I'm not getting the "flushing" noise that most people get (I think...). The noise isn't actually coming from the drain in the overflow - it's coming from the sump and it's made when the air bubbles that are draining with the water come out of the top and break at the surface of the water in the sump...

[got2lb]

I would say you need more holes. It's not letting enough air escape and they're going down the overflow into the sump.

[Philby]

Well that makes sense...Thanks got2lb

and even if its not the problem, PVC is cheap!

[Philby]

I'm home and I'm gonna work on this tonite - anyone care to agree/disagree with got2lb??

[got2lb]

Oh yeah, if drilling more holes doesn't help. You should have made it smaller!

Hope that helps you out!