Please help. my SPS's tips are eroding!!

[aussiefishy]

http://members.shaw.ca/aussiefishy/Coralsick.html

i have some pictures of this. it happened before and it went away, only this piece of coral and its frags experience such "sickness". and it is happening again....

please help as i am not sure why this is happening....

some information of my display.(past 30 days)


i check the temperature records. it fluctuate from 77.6-80.0
alkalinity is a bit low, 7.6-8.5 calcium 350 (salifert)
Salinity 1.025

[speedstar]

wierd looks more like alk burn. I'd get alk in the 8~10 dkh and calcium back up to 400+ see if it settles down.

[aussiefishy]

I was suspecting that as well, but when it happened last time the alk and ca was standard. 410ppm/10dkh

i am currently correcting the low alk by doubling the dosage on my kalkwasser.

will keep updated.

as always, any help will be appreciated.

[Just Jim]

Originally posted by speedstar
wierd looks more like alk burn. I'd get alk in the 8~10 dkh and calcium back up to 400+ see if it settles down.

alk burn? I thought it was thinking it was micro bubbles...

[UFreefer]

i have the same problem with two of my corals and they are the ones that are in the path of my return. I know it's not from too much flow so I wonder if it is caused from microbubbles...

[aussiefishy]

the bubbles you see on the damaged tip are on there after the tip was eroded. the algae grown on the damaged area and creates these bubbles... maybe through respiration?

anyother imputs are all welcome!! please help.

[ReefWreak]

microbubbles don't hurt SPS corals. That's stupid. sorry.

the bubbles are from algae eating the tips.

Check for parasites (redbugs, AEFW). I thought mine was alk burn (alk at 10dkh, CA at 410), but it wasn't, then I thought it was nitrates (they were at 15ppm before a big water change), but that wasn't it. So I pulled the coral out and inspected. It was red bugs. Which should have been impossible since I treat EVERYTHING that comes into my tank with a 6 hour bath of 1/2 interceptor large dog pill + 1/2 fluke tab with powerhead and heater, in 2.5g of water. Something like 1,000,000x the regular dose.

But lo and behold, there they were. So now I'm doing a whole tank treatment this weekend. yay thanksgiving...

My point is, check the coral up close, and you might be suprised.

[Goodwood]

I've had the same problems for the past 4 months, only happens to certain corals ORA tort being one of them. 50% water changes a week and tons of carbon has really helped but it has not stopped. My guess is a bacterial issue

[mysterybox]

It's either red bugs or nutrients. I have 2 unwelcome experiences so far. Phosphates #1! Nitrates #2. It will take some time to recover, but they will at that point. Unfortunately, the first time cost me some big bucks, this last time cost me 1 rose millie & 1 purple bottlebrush (the bottlebrush might make it, but not looking good) The cheapest test kits that detect phosphates low enough for stonies are DD merk test kit, Hach, or colormeter. It's an easy fix, but act quick!

[znut Reefer]

Also, make sure you don't have any fish that are nipping your acros. I just ordered 3 yellow tangs, sailfin, and a tomini. All were nippers on acros except for 2 of the yellow tangs.

[mysterybox]

Originally posted by Goodwood
I've had the same problems for the past 4 months, only happens to certain corals ORA tort being one of them. 50% water changes a week and tons of carbon has really helped but it has not stopped. My guess is a bacterial issue

your water changes and carbon is helping control the nutrients.

It's either red bugs or nutrients. I have 2 unwelcome experiences so far. Phosphates #1! Nitrates #2. It will take some time to recover, but they will at that point. Unfortunately, the first time cost me some big bucks, this last time cost me 1 rose millie & 1 purple bottlebrush (the bottlebrush might make it, but not looking good) The cheapest test kits that detect phosphates low enough for stonies are DD merk test kit, Hach, or colormeter. It's an easy fix, but act quick!

[Goodwood]

Mysterybox
I wish it was a nutrient issue but many people locally have experienced it recently. I only feed a little every other day and I run a Deltec skimmer. Water is clean and zero algae growing. Corals have actually lightened (pastel) up because of the large water changes so it can't be nutrients. I have to say my tank has never been so nutrient poor. I wish it was only that simple but my issue may or maynot be related to Aussies

[kenettson1]

I have also had the same issues. Tissue very slowly receeding over several months time. I have no idea what it is.

[mysterybox]

At least check phosphates with a kit that can measure low like merk, hach, or hanna. If phosphates are above 0.024, you might not see algae problems, but it prevents calcium from being used. It's possable to be nutrient poor in nitrates, but still have problems with phosphates. At least eliminate it as a possibility. Standard Salifert, API, etc kits won't measure it low enough to use. Of course, in your case, that might not be the, but you have a few tagged on that certainly should check their phates. Good luck!

[250G]

alk burn, or an overdose of strontium perhaps (if you did anything that could have influenced it)

[aussiefishy]

Thank you for all of the valuable inputs: to summed up, the suggestion was:

1. Alk Burn
2. Algae eating away tips
3. bacterial
4. fish nipping
5. Red Bugs
6. Phosphate/nitrate concerns
7. Strontium OD

I have looked into all of these possible scenarios..

1. Alk Burn - i have check back my past reading for alk/ca numbers and it seems this is not the main culprit, although it might be possible. i am currently increasing soage of my Ca reactor (after a major overhaul) and Kalk dosage, we shall see the results in the coming week or so.

2. Algae eating - not possible, since the tips "eroded" before the algae have a chance to grow, i do not think this is the factor.

3. Bacterial - possibly, but i tried to induce a infection by breaking a tip of the green acro right next to the affected acro, show no deteriation so far. -- course of action - might run a UV and observe. i have one on standby.

4. fish nip - no - i have spent 2 days watching them, they are only nipping the algae, and the tips are not any worse after it has been eroded.

5. Red-bugs - not found, and if it is the case, most of the time it starts at the base, not the tips.

6. Phosphate/nitrate - there are earlier signs to signal you have these 2 chamicals in teh water, namely excessive nuisance algae and water testing. i have used Rowaphos regularly and change them every 3 months, and carbon as well, plus i change 25 gallons of water weekly using RODI with a TDS reading of <2ppm. so not likely.

7. Strontium - i do not dose them.

I think the Alk burn and baterial causes are more probable... i will correct the alk/ca reading in due course and provide results when ready.

any other inputs/possible thesis?? thank you all!

[mysterybox]

6. Phosphate/nitrate - there are earlier signs to signal you have these 2 chamicals in teh water, namely excessive nuisance algae and water testing. i have used Rowaphos regularly and change them every 3 months, and carbon as well, plus i change 25 gallons of water weekly using RODI with a TDS reading of <2ppm. so not likely.

I have to change my ROWA every 2 to 3 weeks. I test the water leaving the reactor. You are changing it every 3 months? You don't test phosphates with a low range kit? Here's you're issue, but I guess you can keep looking elsewhere..........

[Grunt007]

^^^I have measurable PO4 in my tank always(~.03-.05 Seachem test)! I've never used Rowa, phosban, etc. consistently though I do plan on starting to see if I can get anymore "pop" out of what I have. In my opinion and direct experience in the last 4 years PO4 is NOT the issue here in my opinion. I'd suspect redbugs, aefw, or some other stresser.
But keep in mind aussie just b/c the TDS of your RO/DI is 2, doesn't mean it doesn't have PO4 or trates. I have 0-1 ppm TDS coming from my RO/DI and I get measurable PO4 in the water. Some containers may leach more into make up water as well during storage.

[Norwood IND]

It looks more like alk burn to me.
Let us know what happens when you correct your parameters...

[mysterybox]

If you suspect low alk & calcium, why don't you just use a 2 part to get the parems in line, then work on the reactor.

[Gary Majchrzak]

What's your water change schedule?

Originally posted by aussiefishy
i change 25 gallons of water weekly using RODI with a TDS reading of <2ppm. so not likely.

what is total volume of the system... 350 gallons?

[dreaminmel]

Just another thing to consider...

I developed a problem with tips dying on some of my acros about a month ago and Thanksgiving Day started to notice some slow tissue sloughing from two of my new acro frags received the day before (many other new frags doing ok)... My parameters are consistently kept as noted below in my signature line. There was not a single thing I could come up with as the reason. Today I chatted with John at one of our LFS and have come up with a possible problem. I use Randy's DIY two part for dosing of Alk, Ca and Mg. I do perform water changes but only 25 gallons of a system containing 125 total volume every other week. My corals may very likely be lacking in necessary trace elements such as Strontium and Iodide. I never had this issue before when using B-Ionic two part as they include trace elements but Randy's DIY two part does not.

I dosed trace elements 10 hours ago and am already noticing a remarkable difference. The STN has stopped in it's tracks on the new frags and the acros w/ tip death have incredible polyp extension. Even other acro that weren't showing any stress look much better.

I know this may not be your problem but if anyone reading this has similar problems, this information may be helpful.

[aussiefishy]

Thank you all.

mysterybox:: i have never test PO4 in my tanks. i guess i might have some PO4 or NO3 in the water, but i do not expect those are the "main" inducer of these tip erosion.

In my experience as a reefer, and my university knowledge on biochemistry, the test kits out on this market have such a large margin of error one can suggested they are not useful. It can certainly give you the changes in values between testing intervals, but not the absolute values. However, i think as some of you suggested, the alk burn seems to be the most probable.

i have started to add CaCl and dKh buffers in increments yesterday, and i will do a test on the water this wednesday, hopefully the Ca/dKh readings will improve.

Gary Majchrzak:: My total water volume in my system should be about 225-250 given the fact that i have 350lb of LR, over 60pcs corals and livestocks, macroalgae and other equipments that took the volume space. so 25 gallon/week thus equal to about ~10% change. and it is weekly.

Grunt007:: I totally agree the fact that i have a TDS reading of 2ppm might have some PO4/NO3 intake, but that should not be the main culprit here...

dreaminmel:: as for strontium and other trace elements, i think they are important, but i do believed in my water changing schedule, and i assumed that these trace should not be insufficent. i use a Ca reactor and the media does release the necessary amount of Mg in the water (Mg is NOT a trace element).

again, sorry for my grammer/writing skills and thank you very much for all of your inputs and opinion. as always, i welcome all inputs!

thank you.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Tip erosion is not a unique problem- others have had it. A search of RC will reveal their "cure".

[mysterybox]

Here is the reason that I was a little adament about phosphate:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

DD Merk, Hach, & colormeter can test phosphates low enough to act upon, IMHO. I just know what happened to me..........twice! Both times it was tips, both times it was phosphates. Randy said that their was no such thing as "Alk Burn" to my knowledge, however, if Alk & calc, are low (or other important trace elements) then, I guess it would cause the same thing due to lack of calcification on fastest growing areas. But hey.......I'm no rocket scientist.