Pointless (but cool) possible DIY

[Rosseau]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Throwing firecrackers into a hen house causes natural behaviors as well...

Honestly... does a lightning strike that shakes the house, cuasing the dog to pee on the floor, do ANYTHING beneficial for the dog? It scares him and makes him shake.... He would do the same things in the woods as well. What is the point?

There has been lots of research done on various coral reef systems around the world. Perhaps citing a paper suggesting that lightning/storms have an influence on behaviour and timing of events would make this DIY less "pointless".

[speedo2wet]

just do it dude!!!! I want to see the end result I think it will be exciting to watch and there is info out there pertaining to the healthiness of purging or waves and movement underwater crashing through corals. Seems healthy. DO IT......DO IT....DOODO IT.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by Rosseau
There has been lots of research done on various coral reef systems around the world. Perhaps citing a paper suggesting that lightning/storms have an influence on behaviour and timing of events would make this DIY less "pointless".

Actually there has been very LITTLE research done on coral reef systems.

Why would one need to cite a paper to understand that lightning and similar events cause stress?

The effects are very predictable. I again ask you, what is the purpose?

Honestly, do we need to debate the effects of lightning? Are you honestly saying that the idea has merit or are you just trying to be intellectual?

Hell even the OP admitted it was pointless.

I can build a rain system for the back your too. I can put a big fan and a water jet on the roof of the house with huge strobe lights. Randomly when the dog goes outside, I can give him a thunderstorm with driving rain and gailforce winds. A small cannon will provide the concsusion of thunder. It will be cool! I wonder if it will help the dog mate!

[APISTOBORELLI]

Sounds like a neat idea. What about the metal halides though? You'll need to leave them off for a bit before they'll fire again right? Would you be doing this at normal "lights off" time?

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by speedo2wet
just do it dude!!!! I want to see the end result I think it will be exciting to watch and there is info out there pertaining to the healthiness of purging or waves and movement underwater crashing through corals. Seems healthy. DO IT......DO IT....DOODO IT.

Better yet, why dont YOU do it.

I love when people blindly urge others to try something.

"JUMP... JUMP... JUMP..."

Crashing waves have nothing to do with the thunder, lightning and freshwater. The rest of us gain those proven benefits by the use of wavemakers, dump boxes and similar devices. The same type of thing that would be used WITH the "storm maker" proposed here.

[BeanAnimal]

Heck we could even pour oil into our tanks and simulate tank spills! We could put shaker tables under the rock and simulate earthquakes! What about lava... an underwater torch maybe?

Those sound like neat ideas too!

[Rosseau]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Actually there has been very LITTLE research done on coral reef systems.

Why would one need to cite a paper to understand that lightning and similar events cause stress?

Honestly, do we need to debate the effects of lightning? Are you honestly saying that the idea has merit or are you just trying to be intellectual?

Trying to be intellectual?... Down boy.

"Why would one need to cite a paper to understand that lightning and similar events cause stress?" I'm not debating whether or not it causes stress. You're the one who brought up "stress".

In the original post it was suggested that storm events, including lightning, could have some effect on behaviours of reef organisms - perhaps to induce spawning or something along those lines. I doubt this is the case in reality, however, it has also been suggested that corals spawn with some sort of synchronicity with the phases of the moon and so it is plausible that storm events could play a role also.

We all know corals are sensitive to light... we know monsoons and some tropical storms occur over somewhat cyclical time periods.

So, I was suggesting that a reference to a study that addresses or even mentions the idea of storm/lighting and reef organisms would add some merit to this otherwise unfounded DIY.


I think you misunderstood my tone. I highly doubt that in nature lightning and FW inputs from storms trigger behavioural events in reef organisms. I am even more skeptical that a simulated "storm" in an aquarium will do it either.

[Rosseau]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Actually there has been very LITTLE research done on coral reef systems.

It's all relative...

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by Rosseau
Trying to be intellectual?... Down boy.

It was an hoest question, not an insult.

In the original post it was suggested that storm events, including lightning, could have some effect on behaviours of reef organisms - perhaps to induce spawning or something along those lines. I doubt this is the case in reality, however, it has also been suggested that corals spawn with some sort of synchronicity with the phases of the moon and so it is plausible that storm events could play a role also.

plausible, but not likely. Furthermore, the proposal here is far from scientific. It is (as noted several times) pointless within the context of a home reefer building such a system.

We all know corals are sensitive to light... we know monsoons and some tropical storms occur over somewhat cyclical time periods.

Nobody said they didn't. Snowstorms happen in a cyclical manner as well and surely had something to do with the development of thick hides and fur. There is no doubt that the reactions to storms have altered the creatures that are subjected to them. The point (in context with a this thread and hte proposed idea) is that it is pointless to carry out such an experiment and WILL MORE THAN LIKELY cause more harm than good!

So, I was suggesting that a reference to a study that addresses or even mentions the idea of storm/lighting and reef organisms would add some merit to this otherwise unfounded DIY.

Yes it might. The problem is that there has been very little work done on understanding ANY aspects of spawning. There have been many observations that it is tied to lunar cycles.

I think you misunderstood my tone. I highly doubt that in nature lightning and FW inputs from storms trigger behavioural events in reef organisms. I am even more skeptical that a simulated "storm" in an aquarium will do it either.

That was my point all along... which in turn makes the idea in this thread more than a little pointless The reality is that such system is more likely to do harm. The bandwagon of people chanting "cool, do it" do not make the idea any better. It just illustrates that not everybody has the same level of understanding of the pros and cons.

[Rosseau]

Agreed.

I'll help you out with the dog analogies...

Perhaps to simulate water scarcity at the height of the summer season I could systematically decrease the water in the dog's bowl until it is all dried up! I'll observe his behaviour as he clamours to adapt to his simulated natural envrionment.


Hmm... ok, you can have your thread back now.

[Conesus_Kid]

If you have the time, money, and inclination to try it safely, I think it would make for some interesting observations.

Personally, I wouldn't try it, but I don't have the time, money nor inclination.

Some of us need to keep in mind that we all enjoy different aspects of the hobby, including trying new and sometimes "pointless" ideas.

[drstupid]

how about a camera flash? or two. you can get some good ones cheap now, digital SLR's require a whole different timing and control system on them, so the ones for 35mm cameras can be found cheaply used. no demand any more.

i like the idea of trying to do more in the external environment to make things feel more at home on the reef. my tank's routine swings between my nephew counting hermit crabs and someone yelling at the dogs. hardly "whale song".

[Drag Racer]

good point conesus_kid. If someone wants to try something I dont think its nessesary to put the guy down for coming up with something different, wether it works or not. You have to give the guy credit for coming up with something unique. Constructive critisizm is good to a point untill you start making someone feel bad about what there doing.

[Mastermind]

Originally posted by Drag Racer
Constructive critisizm is good to a point untill you start making someone feel bad about what there doing.

Trust me, it'll take a little more than one or two people on the internet to discourage me Hell, even if someone came in and cited work studies proving that this would not be beneficial, or even BAD for my tank, I'd probably still do it.

To those with doubt about this project: I have nothing backing up my idea at all. Sure, it's feasible that thunderstorms cause stress, but it's a naturally occurring event. A simulated storm may not make the fish feel at home, may not induce spawning, may not lead to anything except my enjoyment. BUT, in my opinion, wild caught species will be used to this. Maybe it'll stress TR fish a little more; maybe it won't. The beauty about ANY hobby, is the ability to try new things. No one in this thread has seen this done before, nor has anything been proven beneficial or detrimental. So, why not try it? If people never tried new, unexplored things, OUR WORLD would be at a standstill. I'm sure 10 years ago this hobby looked entirely different than it does now. We've made advances as reef-keepers because people have tried new things. Ideas that work, stick. Ideas that don't, get scrapped.

/rant

Anyway, it is my intention to try this project. If it doesn't work, sucks, or stresses my fish then I'll be out maybe $100 in materials. If it DOES work, and proves beneficial, I may have helped to advance the hobby. Hell, maybe someone will ask me to build THEM a system after mine is proven functional, and I could make a couple bucks back. Either way, I'm fine with doing it.

To those that are interested in watching this happen: I just picked up my new tank (50g breeder). It should be a fairly fast paced build, but anything can happen. I'm building my stand this weekend, and hopefully drilling the tank. Once it's running, I'll use the down time while it's cycling to start building this project.

All followers to this thread are welcome, whether you're interested, skeptical, or think it's the stupidest idea since the 'pet rock'.

[Altpers0na]

iv got spare tesla coil laying around... time to add 'natural' lightning to help the tank..

wonder how setting it off several times a week is going to go over with my electric company..., er and insurance agent.

on a more serious note..

id say, if you knew your daily evaporation.. using a spray bar to top off the tank w/ that amount of fresh water would be neat.

the say way its neat when the grocery store sprays the veggies when im reaching for a head of lettuce.

[Altpers0na]

double post .

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by drstupid
i like the idea of trying to do more in the external environment to make things feel more at home on the reef.

Back the basic premise that not all "natural" things are good. That is exactly what you are trying to argue

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by Drag Racer
good point conesus_kid. If someone wants to try something I dont think its nessesary to put the guy down for coming up with something different, wether it works or not.

Nobody put the guy down. He offfered an idea on a public forum and should expect informed replies, as should you. Don't be so sensative.

You have to give the guy credit for coming up with something unique. Constructive critisizm is good to a point untill you start making someone feel bad about what there doing.

Only if your perspective is that "all ideas are good ideas", which is simply nonsense. Some ideas are simply NOT good ideas. This is not a terrible idea, but is fairly easy to show that is not a good idea when all things are considered.

Nothing personal... but if you post an opinion or idea in public...

[samtheman]

Bean,

Do this (argue with the nit wits) for 10 years, and you will know why I post like I do.

[Drag Racer]

im going to tag along for this one, I still thinks a neat and differnet idea. I have no bad things to say about it. Hell Ive had plenty of bad ideas in the past. You learn from your mistakes. If I listened to my parents everytime they told me not to do something I wouldnt have learned something new or an important lesson in life. Weather it works or not you have to give the guy credit for coming up with a unique and original idea. Good luck I'll chime in with ideas if need be.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by Mastermind
Trust me, it'll take a little more than one or two people on the internet to discourage me

I am not sure that is something to be proud of. I tend to listen to others around me when they are more knowledgeable about a subject.

Hell, even if someone came in and cited work studies proving that this would not be beneficial, or even BAD for my tank, I'd probably still do it.

Really not something to be proud of (at least from my perspective).

To those with doubt about this project: I have nothing backing up my idea at all. Sure, it's feasible that thunderstorms cause stress, but it's a naturally occurring event.

So are meteor impacts, solar flares, earthquakes, forest fires, red tides, massive extinctions, famines, diseases, floods, and a myriad of other events. Just because it happens does not mean that it should be mimicked in our natural systems.

A simulated storm may not make the fish feel at home, may not induce spawning, may not lead to anything except my enjoyment. BUT, in my opinion, wild caught species will be used to this.

So what? Thompson's Gazelles are used to to be hunted down by big cats and getting whacked by crocs at water holes. I am sure it is not something they look forward to. Little fishes are eaten by big fishes in nature. I am sure it is not something they look forward to. Most animals fear the wrath of mother nature. To simulate it in a captive environment for your own enjoyment is rather short sighted.

Maybe it'll stress TR fish a little more; maybe it won't.

In this case it is pretty much a no brainer.

The beauty about ANY hobby, is the ability to try new things. No one in this thread has seen this done before, nor has anything been proven beneficial or detrimental. So, why not try it?

Because the results are more than a little predictable. If I put a lid on the goldfish bowl and shake the hell out of it every day simulating a tsunami, they may live. What is the purpose?

If people never tried new, unexplored things, OUR WORLD would be at a standstill.

That is the oldest straw argument in the book. Who is saying not to try new things?

I'm sure 10 years ago this hobby looked entirely different than it does now. We've made advances as reef-keepers because people have tried new things. Ideas that work, stick. Ideas that don't, get scrapped.

Yes, of course. But that does not mean that ALL ideas are good ideas or worth perusing.

IF you were equipped to do a scientific study with controls and a well thought out protocol that was coupled with a thesis and data collection, then you may have a point. In reality you just a guy with an aquarium and some fish to torment. There is a HUGE difference.

Anyway, it is my intention to try this project. If it doesn't work, sucks, or stresses my fish then I'll be out maybe $100 in materials. If it DOES work, and proves beneficial, I may have helped to advance the hobby. Hell, maybe someone will ask me to build THEM a system after mine is proven functional, and I could make a couple bucks back. Either way, I'm fine with doing it.

And with that I do not know weather to shake my head or laugh.

Your money, your fish... have fun.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by samtheman
Bean,

Do this (argue with the nit wits) for 10 years, and you will know why I post like I do.

Sam, I never thought there would be a day that I agreed with you. Hell next we will be drinking beer together.

[Drag Racer]

Wow bean not one positive thing to say. I respect that you probably know quite a bit about SW tanks and you probably helped a lot of people go in the right direction but sometimes you have to let people do what there going to do, be it fail or succeed.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by Drag Racer
I respect that you probably know quite a bit about SW tanks and you probably helped a lot of people go in the right direction but sometimes you have to let people do what there going to do, be it fail or succeed.

I have a spare 8000 horsepower Keith Black fuel motor laying around. It is a 496 with a GM 671 blower and a Chet Herbert cam. I am thinking of tossing it into my 1968 Jeep CJ-5. I can't afford a fuel cell, so will just use the stock gas tank. I think roll cages and driveshaft loops are over rated and really don't have the cash to upgrade the suspension. The rear shackles should hold and that dana 44 rearend is bullet proof! I have NEVER seen an 8000 HP street legal Jeep CJ-5 and think it might be a neat idea. My buddy bet me $500 that I couldn't hit 200 on the freeway without turning it over. Sure it is possible that I will get hurt or hurt somebody else but if you don't try new things how do you know they are bad ideas?

[Conesus_Kid]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
I have a spare 8000 horsepower Keith Black fuel motor laying around. It is a 496 with a GM 671 blower and a Chet Herbert cam. I am thinking of tossing it into my 1968 Jeep CJ-5. I can't afford a fuel cell, so will just use the stock gas tank. I think roll cages and driveshaft loops are over rated and really don't have the cash to upgrade the suspension. The rear shackles should hold and that dana 44 rearend is bullet proof! I have NEVER seen an 8000 HP street legal Jeep CJ-5 and think it might be a neat idea. My buddy bet me $500 that I couldn't hit 200 on the freeway without turning it over. Sure it is possible that I will get hurt or hurt somebody else but if you don't try new things how do you know they are bad ideas?

And this equates to a guy who wants to basically hook up his ATO so it delivers to the display, turns off the MH and pops a strobe light a few times.


Okay.