Refugium/Sump important?

[Playa-1]

Get a sump and fuge.
It's a no brainer.

They will provide a plethora of benefits. I wouldn't want to keep a tank without a sump and fuge.

All that being said, it is possible to keep an aquarium without the sump and fuge. But why would you want to?

An analogy would be that you could do all the laundry without a washer and dryer but why would you want to?
You could use a toothbrush to clean you patio if you wanted to.
Get the equipment, It's worth the investment.

[trr8288]

What exactly goes in the sump for filtration and such?

[Playa-1]

Filter sock->Protein Skimmer->bubble trap->fuge->Heater/probes/etc... ->return pump

Filter Sock = filter out large stuff floating around in the water that doesn't need to be there.
Protein Skimmer = A device when working correctly will remove biological waste from the water before it has a chance to break down and cause your water quality to degrade.
Bubble Trap = a few strategically placed baffles in the sump to help rid the system of micro bubbles.
Fuge = A type of a bio filter to help export nitrate from the water and to provide a predator free environment to breed pods.
Heater/probes/Etc... = You can put equipment in the sump and then you don't have to have it creating an eye sore in your display tank.
Return pump = A water pump to send the filtered water back to the display tank.

The sump also adds extra water volume to the entire system that helps to stabilize the water and provides for a little more margin of error.

[trr8288]

Thanks now do these have to go in a specific order and with the protein skimmer is hanging or standing better

[Playa-1]

Now that you know you want a sump/fuge then you will want to do more research. I would recommend checking out the search buttons on this site for sump designs and refugiums and then visit:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html

I put it in the order that i would recommend on the last post but there are many options and you would be served well by reading up on the subject and making your own decisions.

As far as skimmer go, i like the free standing skimmers. I like the insump models and you can usually get good bargains on the used equipment threads, or maybe your local craigslist. You should do a little research on the skimmers and choose carefully.

[trr8288]

With the refugium portion what exactly do i want to put in there

[trr8288]

By placing the heaters in the sump do I need to turn the temperature up to get the proper temperaure in the tank or is it just trial and error

[Playa-1]

Heaters should be fine.

Fuge, you might consider Chaeto, live rock rubble, maybe a piece of live Rock. An inexpensive grow light with an energy efficient bulb from the local hardware store.

The Chaeto will grow and provide a way to export nitrate. I can also be used as a snack for many fish.
The Rock rubble and LR will provide additional filtration and help provide a good environment for pods. Pods will supplement the diet of you live stock.

[trr8288]

I've seen some sumps with the refugium and skimmer on opposite sides of the sump and both spilling water into the return wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having a sump to filter water?

[RyanBrucks]

no, it doesn't defeat the purpose, its a tradeoff.

it does reduce the amounnt of 'variable water volume' your sump can hold, or drain, before either overflowing or running dry, since your refugium will need a constant water level to overflow correctly.

the reason people generally put the refugium on the opposite end of the skimmer is so they can direct seperate flow through the refugium and control the water flow speed with a ball valve. if you simply have in the center chamber, then you are stuck with the same level of flow for the sump, skimmer, refugium etc.

of course you dont HAVE to make the refugium on the other side, it's just a design choice many people have made. You could just as easily have a separated flow control refugium in the center, as long as the partition is above the water level, and there is a side chamber for water to flow around to refugium to the return section.

or you could just make it flow through, and not worry too much about the exact flow. what do you want to put in the refugium? certain macroalgae will want more flow than others, but I'm not the best person to explain that topic.

goto www.reefland.com and goto articles by author. anthony calfo has some articles on 'choosing the best macroalgae', and it tells you some better information on flow etc.

[kgouso]

Not trying to hijack, but it is kind of in line with the thread.

The saying goes...the larger the better for a sump, but how big does the fuge need to be?

Does the fuge need to be like 20 gallon, or can you control a flow through a 5 gallon fuge (in a 30 gallon sump) and get beneficial filtration?

(off to read the article from the previous post)

[ljosh]

A tip that I can give you is make sure your heaters are in a section of the sump not affected by evaporation or water changes. Or else you will be sitting there doing some tank maintenance thinking to yourself "hmm what is that burning smell"

[RyanBrucks]

re: heaters in sump; that's a very good tip indeed!

as far as refugium size, it depends on what the purpose of your refugium is, ie what are you feeding?

calfo and others recommend ~20% of your display tank if you are wanting to use it to help feed corals or picky fish like mandarins. If you just want some macroalgae, then I don't think there is a minimum size. Keep in mind that the amount of nitrate reduction you see will likely be proportional to how much macroalgae you can grow. But at the same time, the more macroalgae you have, the more it will compete for the same nutrients in your water I think this is why its really hard for even an expert to say "you need X gallons in a refugium" since they have no real knowledge of the nutrients in your system.

that said, i think any refugium will probably be better than none, and can provide some nutrient export abilities. I imagine that having a refugium in the first place is the biggest leap, and then small gains are had thereafter by increasing the size.

somebody with more experience should verify that though.

[trr8288]

Where would be a good place to put the heaters in the sump then?

[Sk8r]

I put my heater in my fuge, which is chamber 2 of my sump; I raised my EV 120 skimmer on eggcrate to sit above chamber 4, with the pump in chamber 4 along with the return pump. This lets me have 20g of space in chamber 2 for a fuge...it is rife with tubeworms, rock, sand, and a huge cheato ball that acts as a filter sock: it's massive and tangled, and catches detritus as efficiently as most filter socks.

I also piped my skimmer effluent and all its bubbles back to chamber 1, which takes care of the microbubble issue: it all has to go back through the cheato ball to get to the return pump.

[Playa-1]

Originally posted by ljosh
A tip that I can give you is make sure your heaters are in a section of the sump not affected by evaporation or water changes. Or else you will be sitting there doing some tank maintenance thinking to yourself "hmm what is that burning smell"

Good point. I forget that not everyone uses ATO

*** Don't put heaters in the same compartment as your return pump....

[WDWDen]

What is macroalgea? I just build a sump with a center fuge. So far, I only have live sand in it. I will add a couple of small peices of my live rock and some cheato. Will macroalgea just start to grow in there?

[Fizz71]

Cheato _IS_ macroalgea. So are caulerpa racemosa (sp...grape macro), Halimeda (catcus), feather (don't remember the scientific name but I think it's a caulerpa as wall), red tang heaven (again I forget the name) and about a dozen other species available to the reefkeeper.

Chaetomorpha is easy to grow, control and trim so it's very popular and very sought after. I personally think grape grows faster and pulls more out of the water but comes at a higher risk.

Basically any algea that looks more like a weed you'd pull than slime you'de scrape off with a magnet cleaner would be macro.

--Fizz

[WDWDen]

Ok Fizz, I like the way you explained that. Now I know what to look for. Thanks!!