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#51
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Proud Card Carrying Member of the Deltec Club. |
#52
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Can I use Prodibio at the same time as Vodka?
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#53
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#54
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Yes,
Its a good idea to dose some bacteria like Prodibio's BioDigest or Fauna Marin's Ultra Bio or Zeo's stuff periodically to replenish the diversity and prevent a monoculture. James
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Old Reefers Never Die, they just...join the crew! |
#55
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I HEARD IF YOU DOSE SUGAR YOU WILL GET SOME SWEEEEET CORALS!!
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I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. - Thomas Alva Edison |
#56
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what happens if you don't "replenish the diversity" of your bacterial population?
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#57
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SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET! DUDE.
I just started dosing sugar. Can't wait for the colors..... |
#58
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5ml vodka = 1tsp of sugar approx.
HTH
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Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! |
#59
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Has anyone seen what they are pretty sure were the detrimental results of a "monoculture"?
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Peter Click my red house to see my tank :-) |
#60
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I'm skeptical about "monocultures". I was under the impression that bacteria will exist regardless.
Take a gallon of pure water throw in a dead shrimp = bacteria. I would think it would be really hard to get a mono culture even if you tried. Wouldn't feeding introduce new bacteria? |
#61
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unless your food is contaminated it wont introduce new strains.
monocultures are a problem....the detriments are cloudy not clear water, bacteria spnge like growth on equipment and LR, and poor coloration of acro's. i am finding this again as I am just begining to get the weird bacteria growth...time for a dose of prodibio and it should go away. eric
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red|house|blog "i like bubbly, and i love animals - so it works out well" "there are a lot of people out there who think they have a modern house simply because they have alot of steel in it" |
#62
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That's not a problem with one strain of bacteria, that's a problem with too much bacteria, whether it is one strain or not.
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Peter Click my red house to see my tank :-) |
#63
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considering the little amount i have dosed and the massively oversized skimmer i have for my tank..i highly doubt that's the case. no bloom occurred or came close to occuring.
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red|house|blog "i like bubbly, and i love animals - so it works out well" "there are a lot of people out there who think they have a modern house simply because they have alot of steel in it" |
#64
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Peter, Again this is anecdotal so take it for what it's worth (hopefully something). When I dosed vodka without additional bacteria sources, I got the same stringy snot bacteria all over the tank, equipment, liverock.... when I've used a bacteria source, I have not grown this "snot". I've done this on a couple of systems. Now whether this "snot" is a monoculture, I'm not certain. I'm not that smart to know.... wheres meso and chris jury when you need them.....
If we can assume that different bacteria cultures have different growth rates, it seems logical that there could be a monoculture.... thinking out loud. What I find interesting is that this argument is pretty consistent in the lore that is carbon dosing. However, it wasn't until recently that it was discovered that Nitrobacter aren't the bacteria that convert NO2 -> NO3 which was common thought for the past 30 years. See RA3... boxfishpooalot, thanks for that conversion. Is that by weight/mass? How did you calculate this? |
#65
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It was almost ten years ago that it was discovered that it isn't Nitrobacter http://web.archive.org/web/200401051...ce/default.asp
Is there any documentation about what species of bacteria tend to become monocultures and what species of bacteria are in these mysterious additives? Without even that, why should I assume that these additives are anything other than snake oil designed to separate fools from their money? Theres a lot of that in this hobby. |
#66
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edit: check fauna marin's website as they do list their ingredients for their main ultra products.
eric
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red|house|blog "i like bubbly, and i love animals - so it works out well" "there are a lot of people out there who think they have a modern house simply because they have alot of steel in it" Last edited by Flint&Eric; 10/16/2007 at 11:54 AM. |
#67
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So you are saying that the introduction of some additive is providing a large number of different bacteria. And that this diversity of bacteria, when grown to the same numbers/density/mass as a "monoculture", is invisible (ie no visible cloudiness, mats, etc). I have doubt, but I'm not a microbiologist either.
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Peter Click my red house to see my tank :-) |
#68
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BTW, I love anecdotal evidence. Use it all the time. No worries
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Peter Click my red house to see my tank :-) |
#69
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#70
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for someone asking such questions, i'll allow you to do your own footwork it's out there and for the most part easily obtainable.
i probably should have just ignored the question....lets try and keep this thread on track.
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red|house|blog "i like bubbly, and i love animals - so it works out well" "there are a lot of people out there who think they have a modern house simply because they have alot of steel in it" |
#71
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Actually, I don't have any mats, stringy stuff, or cloudy water...(more anecdotal info) when using vodka AND dosing a source of bacteria..... I'm no microbiologist either |
#72
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Thanks for helping me find the ingredients for the bacterial additive. It contains two species of bacteria that are not normally found in our tanks: Nitrosomonas europea and Nitrobacter winogradskyi. They aren't missing because because you dosed your tank with ethanol and created a monoculture, they aren't in anyones tanks. You don't need them, as if adding them to your tank weekly would have any effect. Read this article (by the same author as the link I posted above.) I'd love to see strong evidence to the contrary, but it seems this bacterial additive is snake oil.
http://www.reef-fanatics.com/forums/...uaria-270.html |
#73
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Now, I am not sure how the addition of more strains of bacteria would change this, except to compete for nutrients, and not allow any one strain to flourish. However, I think this also means that you have less overall bacterial growth in the tank ie. no one strain is at the point of taking over, otherwise you'd still see visible signs. Does this mean you have the overall same "amount" of bacteria, without the physical signs of mats and such? I'm not sure. It seems unlikely. If you did, you'd still have visible signs, just variations, shapes, colors of mats, strings, cloudiness, etc.
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Peter Click my red house to see my tank :-) |
#74
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marineland may have a part in the labeling of bacteria used by FM and the lack of info given by KZ...just a wild thought.
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red|house|blog "i like bubbly, and i love animals - so it works out well" "there are a lot of people out there who think they have a modern house simply because they have alot of steel in it" Last edited by Flint&Eric; 10/16/2007 at 01:37 PM. |
#75
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edit - ok, it just doesn't work in firefox.
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..no vemos las cosas como son las vemos como somos nosotros... Last edited by PSam; 10/16/2007 at 01:27 PM. |
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