900gal 72x72x40 planning

Jamokie01 · #1 10/03/2007, 01:29 PM

Well Ive been considering this system for a few years, slowly planning it out as I gained experience and learned what I did and did not like about my previous setups. This will be my fifth and final (I hope, but probably not) reef tank and I will start building it once I move next summer, so I still have time to iron out the details. My main emphasis is going to be making the tank as efficient as possible while still looking good, being convenient, and having simple maintenance.
The display will be 72"x72"x40" tall, the front pane and both sides will be starphire or other low iron glass, Im trying to decide on thickness. My understanding is 1" will be necessary, but I dont know if I should use standard or laminated, and how that will affect strength/durability. The bottom and back will by plywood with an overflow built onto the back of the tank. It will sit on a seriously overbuilt stand as all filtration will take place in the room behind it. I was considering lighting it with T-5s as I like the efficiency and low heat, as well as mix n' matching color combos, but Im told it will take about 16 60" bulbs and Im thinking that may be more of a pain than its worth. So now I think Im going with 4 250watt halides in lumenarcs. I dont want supplimental lighting, I think its wasteful and a pita, Id rather just screw 4 15,000k bulbs and be done with it. Moonlighting is different though, as is sunrise/sunset, I may play around with some leds or cold cathodes to simulate these effects, it wont be something that needs changed regularly or consumes much energy. My lighting platform will be placed on a track that slides into the maintenance room behind it, this will allow for easy maintenance of the lighting and give me room to access the tank. Recessed incandescent lighting will be installed above the tank so I can still see what Im doing when the platform is moved.

Jamokie01 · #2 10/03/2007, 01:52 PM

Flow in this tank will be accomplished with propeller style powerheads, likely Hydor Koralias. I will be using a Dolphin Amp Master as my return pump, probably only pumping 3000 or so gph. the returns will come through the back wall through locline fitted with eductors. Im unsure as to whether or not to hook a SCWD up before the loclines to alternate current. I also plan on building 2 or 3 surge boxes to add more chaotic water movement. Anyways, water will drain back into the overflow and fall down either 2 or 3 pipes. One will lead to my refugium and one to a recirc skimmer. I may have a 3rd available for chemical filtration (carbon or whatnot) if necessary. My refugium size will depend on available space, but I will be making it as large as possible with a very deep sand bed. I am undecided on whether to buy or DIY a skimmer, but I think to get exactly what I want I may have to build it myself. Both the skimmer and fuge will drain to my sump where the water will be returned to the tank. I also plan to have two 100gal barrels that will be plumbed into the system for water changes. To do a water change, Id simply have to mix new water in the empty barrel, turn off the valve to the barrel with old water, and turn on the valve to the barrel with fresh water. Drain the old water and its ready for the next change. Ill also be keeping as large of an ro/di resevoir as possible.

Jamokie01 · #3 10/03/2007, 02:03 PM

I will be doing all of my aquascaping with dry baserock and dry liverock so I can get in there and drill and dowel pieces into place to get some nice sturdy shapes. I can also make points to attach coral to make it easier on myself down the road. I will later seed the system with mature liverock that I am currently using. I also plan to cut rocks so they have a flat back and attach them to the back wall of the tank, kind of a facade. The tank is going to have a 6-8" DSB for looks and biological filtration.

I think thats about it, sorry it was so lengthy, I posted this in hopes of additional ideas and constructive criticism. If you dont think something will work, or you know of a better way to do it, or if you think Im on the right track, please say so. Id rather learn from someone else's mistake than make the mistake myself. Any feedback is greatly appreciated, thanks guys.

Waxxiemann · #4 10/03/2007, 04:08 PM

I'm not sure that 4 LMIII's will cover that huge area. I would never do a tank this big myself (I wish) but if it were me, I'd probably go with at least 6 reflectors. Ideally 9.

You don't mention what you plan to keep in this monster. LPS, SPS, FO? If you're going all SPS, I would consider a different powerhead for flow other than the Koralias.

HTH and good luck!
Waxx

Jamokie01 · #5 10/03/2007, 07:14 PM

Thank you for your input, yea my bad, this tank will be softies and LPS, Im keeping a smaller setup for SPS only. So Im not going to need crazy lighting or flow. My understanding is that a mogul bulb in a good reflector can direct light over a 3'x3' area. However you can also figure that I dont want anything within at least 6" of the glass on both sides as well as the front, I like a clean sandbed in front of the glass. I also think keeping the lighting back from the glass will help prevent algae buildup on them. If need be, I would rather motorize my lighting platform to move across the tank as the day goes by.

mxett · #6 10/03/2007, 11:12 PM

I like it. Sounds well thought out and not overly ambitious so far. Good luck.

mxett · #7 10/03/2007, 11:13 PM

Even if you have four main islands of rock and coral, you could centre them under each reflector. I think a tank looks nice when their are areas of more light and less light. It adds to the depth perception.

victor_c3 · #8 10/04/2007, 01:31 AM

Just a thought, as I have no experience with anything bigger than a 30 gallon tank, but how would you manage the stuff (corals, rocks, cleaning the glass,...) inside of your tank with a tank that size?

40" depth alone would be really hard depth for anyone I can think of to reach the bottom, then mix that in with 6 foot span from the front to back and I don't see how you could do any sort of maintenance inside of your tank without actually climbing into it with a scuba mask.

Probably like most people on this forum, I fantasize about having a huge tank like the one you're discussing (and it will probably never happen because my wife would slap the crap out of me if I mentioned the words "900 gallon aquarium"). I'd be really interested to actually see a project such as this come to life.

Jamokie01 · #9 10/04/2007, 02:21 AM

Yea Ive thought alot about that, and when this project started I only planned on having a 30" tall tank. I then saw someones tank that was 36" tall and loved it, their aquascaping was awesome and crazy tall, really impressive. So I decided on 40" tall, with 6-8" of sandbed thats gonna mean Ill still have to reach down 32-34". Im working on a rig I can setup that will let me crawl around above the tank, which us why my lighting will be able to retract into my maintenance room. It may be as simple as installing eyehooks on the joists above the tank and building a removable canopy that I can put up when I need to place or prune corals. I still think its fairly likely that I will be putting on a snorkel and climbing into this bad boy, which is why Im not stocking SPS. Softies and LPS are much more forgiving if you bump them. I think if I plan ahead and make areas for specific corals, maybe drill holes so I can just insert a frag plug, this can be made much more simple. No question in my mind though, placing corals and trimming them down is definitly going to suck.

Diablo · #10 10/04/2007, 05:07 AM

Tall is beautiful... of that there is no doubt. I am currently planning a tank of similar form factor to you (livestock area of 118" x 118" x 48"). I would have loved to go double height, but I was starting to run into power budget issues as well as having to budget $30K for 2" acrylic view-pannels. 36" will be a pain for many tasks, but well worth it IMO. In Mike Paletta's book, Ultimate Marine Aquaria, David Saxby cites one of his only regrets as not going tall enough... I belive his tank is 48" high.

I am glad this thread hasn't turned into a "watts per gallon" thread. If you want to jam a tiny tank full to capacity with coral, then I suppose even lighting is important, but the most spectacular tanks always have space to add dimension and interest... you really don't need to illuminate space with 1000W lamps!

Do you plan a DSB in your main tank, or only in the refugium? I am passionate about DSBs, but believe that they have a limited life. I intend to ensure that I can easily replace 1/8 of the capacity of my total DSB area, with ease. THis means external to the display tank.

How do you plan on managing overflow with surge tanks? I haven't figured this out in my head yet for my tank. Adds real complexity.

Your rock plans sound good. I will probably build structures out of concrete...

Also interested in how you intend to bring the plywood and the glass together?

In theory, you could use laminated safety glass using 2 xlayers of 1/4" sheets, thus halving the thinckness and weight compared to what you have proposed and still have plenty of safety margin, but I would not take my word for it...

Good luck.

Diablo · #11 10/04/2007, 05:42 AM

Tall is beautiful... of that there is no doubt. I am currently planning a tank of similar form factor to you (livestock area of 118" x 118" x 48"). I would have loved to go double height, but I was starting to run into power budget issues as well as having to budget $30K for 2" acrylic view-pannels. 36" will be a pain for many tasks, but well worth it IMO. In Mike Paletta's book, Ultimate Marine Aquaria, David Saxby cites one of his only regrets as not going tall enough... I belive his tank is 48" high.

I am glad this thread hasn't turned into a "watts per gallon" thread. If you want to jam a tiny tank full to capacity with coral, then I suppose even lighting is important, but the most spectacular tanks always have space to add dimension and interest... you really don't need to illuminate space with 1000W lamps!

Do you plan a DSB in your main tank, or only in the refugium? I am passionate about DSBs, but believe that they have a limited life. I intend to ensure that I can easily replace 1/8 of the capacity of my total DSB area, with ease. THis means external to the display tank.

How do you plan on managing overflow with surge tanks? I haven't figured this out in my head yet for my tank. Adds real complexity.

Your rock plans sound good. I will probably build structures out of concrete...

Also interested in how you intend to bring the plywood and the glass together?

In theory, you could use laminated safety glass using 2 xlayers of 1/4" sheets, thus halving the thinckness and weight compared to what you have proposed and still have plenty of safety margin, but I would not take my word for it...

Good luck.

triggerfish1976 · #12 10/04/2007, 08:43 AM

I have a 96"l x 48"d x 30"h tank and it is a PIA to work in especially with aquascaping (moving rock, placing corals, etc). The 4' depth along with the height make it difficult so I can't imagine how it would be @ 40" and completely square.

I know someone who has a large square tank similar to what you're proposing but @ 36" tall and he had to build a scaffolding system over his tank in order to be able to work in it efficiently.

As far as the lighting goes, 250 watt will not be enough to light a 40" tank unless you plan on keeping everything in the top 1/2 of the tank. You will need to go with 400 watters but (4) on the large square Lumenarc reflectors may be ok but you will have some dark spots in the tank.

Here are some pics of my tank. I am running (5) 400 watt M/H's on Icecap ballasts and a mixture of Lumenmax 22"x22" reflectors and the new Lumen Bright reflectors. I am also running three different bulbs that have various temp. rating ranging from 10k to 14k to give a better perception of depth.

One of the reflectors

TacoKing · #13 10/04/2007, 09:01 AM

You have to think about your flow. Koralias and a single ampmaster are not going to be enough flow for a 900 gallon tank. I have a 280 gallon tank and I have around 8000 gallons per hour between two closed loops and a 1600 gph iwaki 100rlt return pump attached to eductors. Also, SCWD's are way to small for this application. You need to start thinking in the 1.5" - 2" pipe range. SCWD's are only 1/2" right? Look into oceans motions if you want some sort of alternating current.

How about a couple wave boxes? Or 4 big Tunze streams connected to that boxless wave controller. Who's going to build the tank? With all this extra height you could easily lower the over flow box a bit so you have room for a wave.

Do a little more research. Large tanks are not exact copies of small tanks, there are a lot of differences.

thor32766 · #14 10/04/2007, 09:49 AM

wow that tank is absolutley beautiful!!!!!

Ardeus · #15 10/04/2007, 09:59 AM

And try to make a plan for the rockwork taking everything in consideration:

- Circulation, lighting, corals, safety and, last but not least, aesthetics.

A tank with that kind of size and shape is a challenge to aquascape. It has a great depth and it should show and enhance it.

Here's a link to the best looking square tank I've seen (it's a japanese tank):

http://www.aquarium-layouts.com/index.php?topic=12.0

Notice the curved path all the way to the back glass.

triggerfish1976 · #16 10/04/2007, 10:06 AM

Ardeus,

I agree that is one of my favorite tanks of all time.

Here is another famous squared tank and probably my favorite.

www.oregonreef.com

He was running an insane amount of lighting on this tank.

Ardeus · #17 10/04/2007, 10:22 AM

Please warn people to wear oxygen masks before posting that kind of images!!!

I had to remember to breath while I was watching it.

Jamokie01 · #18 10/04/2007, 04:08 PM

Diablo-Yes I will have a DSB of 6-8" in the tank. Ive always used sandbeds, I love the look and the biodiversity. They say sandbeds are good for four years, I know people who have had them up to twice that long and they look great, but really if I had to change it out every four years, it would still be worth it. As for the surge boxes and the overflow, I dont think it will be an issue. The height of the tank will allow me to give space to accomodate a wave, and Im going to be using three 2" drain pipes. My one concern is how this influx of water will affect my recirc skimmer. Still thinking about that.

Triggerfish-In an earlier post I mentioned constructing a type of canopy that would act as a crawlspace above the tank. I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to build it on tracks just like my lighting platform so it can be pulled into the maintenance room when not in use. After thinking about it overnight I was kinda leaning toward 400watt halides. Im still confident that if placed at the right height they will be sufficient for the entire tank, and again, if need be, Ill motorize them to move across the tank as the day passes. I recently saw a much smaller SPS system where this was employed and it worked incredibly well, efficiency, especially with electrical consumption is key to me.

Tacoking-As far as flow goes, the return pump is just there to feed my skimmer and fuge, any additional flow it adds to the tank is purely incidental, not its intended purpose, so I may as well capitalize on it. Im sure Id end up adding a couple Tunze streams, but for the most part Koralias will be used. In my original post I already mentioned I was going to be utilizing a few surge boxes. Closed loops are terribly inefficient and I dont use them, a watt to gallon ratio isnt even close to a tunze or Koralia. This tank is softies and LPS only, Im just looking for a gentle sway with the occaisonal dispersed rush of water. And I will be building the tan

triggerfish1976 · #19 10/04/2007, 04:15 PM

I agree that Light mover work very well but mainly for the coral propogation businesses. As far as home displays go they are very annoying IMOP because they have to constantly move back and forth across the tank all day long instead of just slowing starting out on one end and eventually ending at the other at the end of the day. If you can figure out a way to do the later than that would be cool.

Jamokie01 · #20 10/04/2007, 04:30 PM

Oh Im sorry Diablo, the glass and wood will meet on the bottom of course. I will have a 3/4"x1" "notch" cut out of the plywood on the sides and front as well as both sides of the back wall, basically a lip where the glass will rest. Im going to use about 1400 tubes of caulking to provide a water tight seal. Ill have to do the sides first, one at a time, caulking will be applied, the glass will be put it place, checked for level and plumb and then a metal bracket will be bolted into place on the back wall and the bottom. This will have already been epoxied and lined with rubber where it touches the glass. This piece is what holds the glass in place, giving it strength, the caulking is only for a seal. This will be repeated on both sides then the front pane can be installed, but this time the metal frame for the top will be installed to hold the glass together up top. Tension rods will be installed spanning the tank and preventing the glass from bowing. Then I get to climb inside and caulk all of the seams. Thats as best as I can explain it quickly.

Ardeus-Rockwork, All of my rock will be dry base and dry liverock, Ill likely get the majority from Marcorocks. Using dry rock will allow me to get in the tank and drill holes, attaching the rock with fiberglass dowels and epoxy. It will also allow be to create a rock facade on the back wall. Ill have all the time I need and dont have to be concerned with keeping the rock wet. Im thinking of installing a drain on the bottom so I can literally just hose out any mess I make during aquascaping. I plan to have a very open and minimal rockwork, trying to keep rocks raised up off the sandbed to minimize dead areas of flow.

Jamokie01 · #21 10/04/2007, 05:30 PM

Triggerfish-That is how the setup I saw worked, it kinda mimics the suns path across the sky. In fact I assumed thats how they all worked, didnt know they rapidly moved around the tank. I didnt really get to look "under the hood" but I believe he said it was hooked up to some type of screw, I dont remember if it was periodically turned on and off or if it was a high torque very low rpm motor. My understanding is it took all day to get to one side, then when it hit the stopper at the other end, the motor experienced resistance and autoreversed. So at night it returned to its normal position. Again, something I need to do much more research about, but I think using the proper gear ratios it could definitly be done. Maybe someone will chime in with more info, thanks for all the input so far guys, very helpful.

triggerfish1976 · #22 10/04/2007, 05:37 PM

Got you. I think that this type of setup will wear down the motor faster since it is constantly ramping up and down all day long but I have never used one so I can't be sure.

Jamokie01 · #23 10/04/2007, 05:42 PM

Ardeus, just took a look at that Japanese tank, pretty cool, really open, I dig the sandbed. I also notice theyre keeping dendronepthya, any info on this at all? I wonder how long theyve been there, I also see tubastrea in a hard to feed spot.
Also, I love the school of chromis, thats one of the things Im excited about, I want a school of about 30 of them. I have a small school of five of them now and they get along very well, Ive heard larger schools may pick eachother off, seems odd to me anybody know if theres any truth to this? Ill have to find my dream livestock list and post it.

Ardeus · #24 10/04/2007, 05:53 PM

I heard that that tank had a direct connection to the sea. That should explain the presence of these tough to keep corals.

I think most people wanting to have more carefully thought layouts should try to learn some things from the guys that put together those beautifull freshwater planted tanks.
______________________
www.aquarium-layouts.com

Jamokie01 · #25 10/04/2007, 06:00 PM

Trigger-Yea, again, Im really not sure how exactly they work, its not something Ive really looked into. If it comes down to it, I do work with Haunted Attractions and have been working with and building animatronics for a number of years, if it really came down to it I could drive it with pneumatics.

Ardeus-Agreed, I started with freshwater and at one time had a really nice planted tank, but the draw of the reef was too powerful. I also like planted saltwater tanks, great for seahorses and pipefish, would love to put one together, but its not on the top of my project list. I need to build this reef first, then I can put together the non-photosynthetic setup Ive had on the back burner for even longer than this one. Then I need to decide between SPS or a kriesel, aww Hell, maybe Ill just do both.