|
|
|
|
#51
10/03/2007, 12:00 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Very interesting comments from the group. I was in the hobby big about 10 years ago and decided to get back in this year. I had a set up with metal halides then for mostly soft corals and LPS. And probably like everyone at one time, I even did maintenance professionally for several years (before attending veterinary school- the experience has been instrumental in my understanding of a customer service profession!) In prep for a ~200 gallon reef (the plan) I set up a 45 gallon Oceanic Tech tank with a H4 24" Solaris lighting. Test the waters so to speak with the hobby, SPS, and the LED technology.
Looking at Solaris I was intrigued by the low heat transfer, reported PAR and color temperature settings, interesting features like sunrise/sunset/cloud cover, and potential longevity prior to replacement. Initially we (including my enduring wife) had problems with the ballast overheating and the lights powering off without notice. That was a little scary. PFO was pleasant to talk with and they helped trouble-shoot the issue (yes expected but not always received with even high price purchases.) After a ballast swap I would have to say I'm happy. Our many species of SPS coral frags are growing steadily in our tank although some definitely do better lower from the light. This is a long story that I'm trying to share with the average hobbiest like myself that is looking at the Solaris. I'm happy with the purchase and it satisfies the reasons why I got it. I agree with several of those who have listed that there are pros and cons to all lighting systems and they may not even be suitable for all applications. But at least this serves an honest testimonial. While I design the large tank now (aiming for a 210-215 gallon), its been tough when I ask aquarium store personnel about recommendations for lighting. Everyone says MH but its not based on experience with LED. It will take time for any of us to really know. All I can say is that I'm leaning towards the I4 Solaris based on my own expereince. If it works as intended there will be cost savings between energy expenses and replacement bulbs, etc and we do enjoy the looks. It even creates a nice ripple effect with good water flow. In case it matters I recognize that few things are perfect or permanent therefore I am also planning for enough room in the canopy that if I decide later I can always switch over to MH if the Solaris doesn't pan out. |
|
#53
10/03/2007, 02:43 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
wow...bean animal....haven't been following this but..what I know is I could post my electric bill if you'd like....but no worries...you obviously have a lot more time then I do. I also know my corals are doing awesome and am completely happy with the lighting.
one solaris H4 vs I removed....3 175 MH, 3 LED moon lights, 4 130 watt PC, 8 fans, and 2 lighting timers. I think I'm certainly saving a lot...oh yeah and my tank has not gone over 80 degrees since. |
|
#54
10/03/2007, 08:30 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Maybe I missed it but it appears that we're only looking at electricity savings. What about the $350+ dollars 'per year' just in bulb savings?
They claim the LEDs are good for 50,000 hrs. If the LEDs are on for 10 hrs a day, year round, they should last for over 11 years. Yes, that is yet to be proven. But should this hold true, that would be nearly $4,000 in bulb savings alone for this guy! Plus all the shipping costs. PLUS the 11 years of electricity savings on top of it. Depending on what people are currently running, it looks to me like a Solaris would pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time in most cases. I like T-5s but I think they've definately got a good thing going with these Solaris fixtures. I'm getting more interested as time goes on but it is scary how fast they are improving and discontinuing yet. Although that should be expected. I think anybody planning a tank for a few years down the road may as well plan on LEDs because they're going to get a lot better and more affordable.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither." -Benjamin Franklin |
|
#55
10/03/2007, 09:02 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I think they will get better, but I do not think they will get more affordable. they only become less expensive if competition drives the price down, and it will most likely be many years before that may ever happen. If you knew peope would be willing to spend the money, then why lower the prices? The only problem I see is the original price. It is hard to convince someone(significant other) that is not knowledgable on the subject, that you have to spend 3k plus for a light over your tank. If the price could be cut in half, the majority of people would use them I think, if they truly do and perform like they say they do.
__________________
pain is inevitable; but suffering is optional.... |
|
#56
10/03/2007, 09:57 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Sorry but if you are going to tell people that you pay nothing for electricity because you have solar,then you need to provide all of the details. I don't pay anything for fuel, my business does. Does that mean that fuel is free? |
|
#57
10/03/2007, 10:10 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
So lets make that point again: Your SOLARIS has much less output than the lighting that it replaced. You could have easily reduced the MH and PC lighting and STILL have happy healthy corals and reduced electric costs. "I had an Audi A6 and got 21 miles to the gallon, I replaced it with a Prius hybrid and now get 57 miles to the gallon. The hybrid is a better car!" Better in terms of what gas mileage? Top Speed? Aesthetics? Ride comfort? Status symbol? Safety? Carbon footprint? Acceleration? Resale value? Purchase cost? Total cost of ownership? What are we comparing? Nobody said that there was not an energy consumption difference. However, the savings that many people report are simply not realistic by any stretch of the math. |
|
#58
10/03/2007, 10:12 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Just something else to think about 
|
|
#59
10/03/2007, 10:58 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
The 4,000 dollar amount was figured at replacing all of his bulbs, once a year. Not 6 months.
I did listen to Sanjay's talk at MACNA and it did look like you could use bulbs a lot longer than everybody says. That was pretty impressive. Also, as I stated above, I think these fixtures still have a lot to prove as far as quality and lifespan. 50,000 hours is a very lofty goal, IMO. And what is the PAR at 50,000 hrs as opposed to brand new? Will all of the components make it 11 years? Certainly many questions have yet to be answered with time. I know I've spent a lot on electronic devices over the years and as far as life expectancy goes, I've been disappointed more often than not. Maybe Solaris will be an exception. I hope they will be.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither." -Benjamin Franklin |
|
#60
10/03/2007, 12:52 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
#63
10/03/2007, 04:54 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
So if it is grid tied your electric bill is not $0
Batteries have a finite lifespan and do need replaced (I am not sure what storage capacity you have). 3000 watt is not a large system. You run your entire house off of that system or just the aquarium? We could look at this from a very simle perspective 3000 Watts x 24 hours a day = 72 kWh a day. 72 kWh a day x 365 days a year is 26280 kWh a year. Electric rates in your state run around $.07 a kwh So assuming you max your system out @ 3000 Watts and do so 24/7/365 you would be saving 26280 kWh X $.07 or $1839.60 a year in electrical costs AT MOST. So that gives you a real world payoff of 3.8 years IF the system needs ZERO maintenace over those 3.8 years. In the real world you don't have the system maxed out at 3000 watts 24/7/365. Lets just say 60% of that for the 24/7/365 average. Say it averages out to 1800 Watts 24/7/365. That is 15768 kWh per year or $1103. That puts the payoff out to around 7 years IF you don't ever have to spend money on the maintenance of the system. We can toss in $500-$2000 every 3-5 years for battery replacement and disposal... this can push the payoff point well into the future (many times past the useful life of the system). Not calling you a liar... just making sure people understand what is being talked about. |
|
#64
10/03/2007, 05:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I'm pretty sure my bill is $0 Last months bill was -$43. I haven't done anything to the system for about 5 years now. Still have the original batteries. I run the whole house off of it.
__________________
PJ Click the Little Red house for my New Tank Build! |
|
#65
10/03/2007, 05:11 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
So over those 5 years what is the total you have paid for grid usage?
Your battery capacity is certainly much less than when you put the system online Sadly we can't get away from that fact. At the 3-4 year mark the downhill slide begins to steeping rapidly.Thanks for the responses! |
|
#66
10/03/2007, 05:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I haven't paid anything. The months that are in the negative numbers just keep adding up and when i happen to use some of the electric companies power they just take it out of the credit i have. I'm thinking about adding a few wind generators just for the heck of it.
__________________
PJ Click the Little Red house for my New Tank Build! |
|
#67
10/03/2007, 05:21 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
So you are selling power back, not just grid tied for shortfall?
Wind generators will cost you quite a bit more than the arrays
|
|
#69
10/03/2007, 05:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I suppose it would have an output capacity to match the price. I always liked the idea of living by a waterfall and having a small turbine...
|
|
#72
10/03/2007, 06:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
In my home that would be 1 fridge, 1 TV, 1 computer, 1 microwave, that's it. However, I think you can exceed that number, it will tap the electrical company for anything above 3K. When you drop below that mark, the extra electricity from the panel will be credited.
3K will be nowhere close to be enough for my home. I've done some research and it would take at least 8-10K (for my 2000 sq. ft home) to make its worth. |
|
#74
10/03/2007, 08:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Last month (the hottest month in like a hundred years or somethign according to the weather morons) i only used 740kwh's for 30 days. Thats the most iv used in a few years lol. Usually its down around 300kwh. The AC was working overtime that month but my elec bill was still -$43
__________________
PJ Click the Little Red house for my New Tank Build! |
|
#75
10/03/2007, 11:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
|
Linear Mode
