Sand

Hopeful Reefer · #1 09/28/2007, 07:48 PM

I'm in the process of converting my 30g over to my 75g over the next few weeks...I ran out of sand, and went looking at Home Depot and Lowes for more tonight...

Unfortunately, neither carry Kolorscape sand any more...I know HD used to carry it and I don't think Lowes ever did, but I looked there just in case...HD only carries the Pavestone and Quikrete brands of play sand...Lowes only has the Quikrete brand...

Anyone have any ideas as to where I can get Kolorscape? That is what I used on my 30g and it has worked out great...I think I may try finding a customer service number for Kolorscape and asking them what retailers in the area have it...if not, I may have to switch brands...although, I thought I remembered someone saying once on here that both the Quikrete and Pavestone brands were bad for aquariums...

Anyone have any thoughts?

NATIVEVAMAN · #2 09/28/2007, 08:10 PM

Those and most play sands have silicates in them that are basicaly dinner for diatoms.Since silica is the second or third most common element on earth its tough to find good sand anywhere outside of an fls.

phurst · #3 09/28/2007, 09:16 PM

I thought that was a myth. How is silica in sand (quartz) any more bio-available than in the glass our tanks are made out of?

ridinshotgun · #4 09/28/2007, 09:48 PM

Here is an article Randy wrote that has some info on the solubility of silica sand.

http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/feature.htm

Hopeful Reefer · #5 09/28/2007, 10:15 PM

I have used the Kolorscape sand since South Down went out...and I've had no more problems with algae than any other person using any other kind of substrate...I did some reading prior to using it, and basically if the sand has a lot of dust it is more likely to have soluable silica...if it is a sand with little to no dust (I.e. Kolorscape) then the soluable silica is virtually nill...

I can't find the article right now, but Randy also published another article (or at least referred to it) stating that Kolorscape was about the best commercially available play sand out there based on vinegar testing (and some other methods)...

So, with that sand I have no problems using this sand...I am just looking for where I can pick some more of it up...

ridinshotgun · #6 09/29/2007, 07:34 AM

Try Southern States. I got some there before but have't looked in quite a while since I bought my last bag a little over a year ago.

Kolorscape will also not pass the vinegar test. Tried it and it failed since it is a silica sand but still good to use. It is made by Oldcastle who used to sell the Southdown stuff but they lost thier supplier in the Bahamas and it is now all silica unless your lucky to find old stock from a few years ago.

Vince · #7 09/29/2007, 07:40 AM

Eric,
Sent you a PM.

Mr..Tang · #8 09/29/2007, 08:10 AM

Jason

I totally agree with you on the kolorscape sand. I have 4 bags of it in my 120 and one bag in my fuge. I have NOT(knock on wood) had any issues with the sand causes algae to grow and also no problem with it becoming hard. My strong flow in fact causes random sand drifts. Its kinda cool. The sand bed is landscaped different everyday via the currents.

I think these bad rumors about using playsand(or anything besides what the LFS sells is bad) was created by people who spent hundreds of dollars on the "right sand" and are pived when they find out you could have done a DSB for under 10 bucks. I hear too many stories of success with playsand than stories of faliure.

Mr..Tang

Hopeful Reefer · #9 09/29/2007, 01:45 PM

Thanks for the advice about Southern States...believe it or not, I just walked in my door from a 4 hour round trip road trip to drop my oldest off with grandparents for 2 weeks...on the way home, while coming through Goochland I decided to stop at their Southern States (spur of the moment!

) ...they had about 3/4 of a pallet of it...it was outside, but I managed to dig down about 1/2 way through the pallet and get 2 bags that had no condensation on the inside...

I agree Mr. Tang...the stories probably came from people that could have spent $10 for a DSB but spent $100+...I have it in my 30g with no problems at all...

As for the vinegar test, I know it doesn't "pass" the vinegar test...however...I saw a vinegar test that was posted some time ago on the internet...if I remember correctly, out of all of the play sands out there that were tested this is the only silica based one that did fizzle a little bit...plus, of all the silica based sands it has the least amount of silica dust and the least amount of silica period...before I did my 30g tank, I PM'd back and forth for over a week with Randy Holmes-Farley and even he said Kolorscape was ok to use for a reef tank...

I haven't checked with our local Amelia Southern States, cause 1) I never thought too and 2) when we drove by there today they are closed on weekends...

Now, I just need to find me some reflectors, plumbing and MH bulbs and my 75g will be ready for water...

arty:

Hopeful Reefer · #10 09/30/2007, 09:02 AM

Found something on the net that might be of interest...gonna investigate further...

As we know, South Down is the preferred sand...no debate here...South Down was bought by Yard Right, who in turn was bought by Old Castle...now, it seems that Old Castle has a packaging facility in Milford, going towards Fort AP Hill nort of Richmond...

I'm wondering, and I'm gonna call the listed number tomorrow to check, if they have a way of providing the Caribean sand to us...maybe a group buy if need be and the interest is there...

I'll check and report back...

phurst · #11 09/30/2007, 09:19 AM

Mmm, I'd be down for some if we can get it...

angelscrx · #12 10/01/2007, 07:45 PM

Cool a hook up. Keep us posted

Hopeful Reefer · #13 10/01/2007, 08:04 PM

Well, I spoke with the company today...the rep I spoke with said he gets calls from folks like me all the time...

He said the supplies dried up 2 years ago when the foreign government for whatever island they were mining the sand from basically kicked everyone out...he couldn't remember which island it was, but they basically barred everyone from dredging up "their sand" from the ocean floor...he didn't see any new suppliers in sight any time in the forseable future...I also inquired if he knew of anyone that might still have the South Down, Yard Right or Old Castle brand of sand...he flatly stated that all known supplies dried up immediately after it became known that the foreigners had stop the industry cold...

sooo...I guess for now, if we want to utilize sand in our tanks we have two options...

We can use Kolorscape, probably has the lowest silica of all sands...or, we can spend $20 or more for a 10-15 lbs bag of CarribSea or similar sand at the LFS...

Sorry guys...I tried...figured maybe a group buy would work...oh well...

Anyone up for a Pacific East group buy instead?

they are currently offering 12 frags for $99...

phurst · #14 10/01/2007, 08:19 PM

I wonder where CaribSea gets theirs? Surely they dont have their own dredging/transport/processing/bagging/shipping facilities...

Hopeful Reefer · #15 10/01/2007, 08:23 PM

He wasn't sure...I did ask...his suggestion was to look on the back of a CaribSea bag...and it should say who/where it is packaged or at least who their supplier is...

Anyone have any bags of the stuff lying around?

Mr..Tang · #16 10/01/2007, 09:32 PM

For whats its worth, My LFS has some sand/small rock rumble in bulk that one of the customers was able to get I think out of Florida. It looks good but of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!!!!

J. Montgomery · #17 10/02/2007, 10:35 AM

Even if you can find out where CaribSea gets their sand, the manufacturer is not going to sell directly to consumers. Almost all industry is built upon a hierarchy of manufacturers -> distributors -> retailers -> consumers; and breaking that is a serious faux pau.

phurst · #18 10/02/2007, 10:44 AM

Right, I just meant if someone else is dredging and processing, they likely have more than just CaribSea as a customer, and if we could find out who, maybe buy from them instead without the inflated "aquarium industry" prices.

WILDTHING · #19 10/02/2007, 12:58 PM

checked my carib Sea bag. Besides the speil about how good it is etc All it has is a PO box in White City, Fl

Neptune777 · #20 10/02/2007, 03:57 PM

Has anyone else ever looked at the calcium carbonate sand sold for reptile bedding? I thought about contacting a local chemical dist. to see what is available for this material (perhaps a food grade grit?)..........Aragonite is essentially CaCO3 with a different crystal formation/structure.

Hopeful Reefer · #21 10/02/2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neptune777
Has anyone else ever looked at the calcium carbonate sand sold for reptile bedding? I thought about contacting a local chemical dist. to see what is available for this material (perhaps a food grade grit?)..........Aragonite is essentially CaCO3 with a different crystal formation/structure.

I asked some time ago about this...I think someone said that there are anti-bacterials, or anti-fungals or something added to that sand because of the animals "doin their bidness" in the sand...

If it is in fact just straight sand though, it would be a great buy...the stuff is about the price of play sand for about the same price...

Anyone able to check on that or confirm? I know some of you guys have some reptiles or something or other...maybe it is labelled on the bags?

Neptune777 · #22 10/03/2007, 06:45 AM

Pretty sure most brands are just straight sand. It would be worth it to contact a chemical supply house locally to see if they offer a similar product (food grade perhaps) that has not been re-packaged and marked up for the pet trade.

brward5 · #23 10/03/2007, 06:57 AM

hey guys... i'm from wamas, your northern reefer friends

we found a distributer of pure crushed marble sand. it looks like great stuff, but the only retailer is in CA. The distributer said he would ship a pallet to us, but that is the minimum. We had some interest in our club, maybe if we band together and get delivery somewhere in Woodbridge we can get enough interest? With shipping it's about $0.27/lb Take a look at this thread:
http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=16637

PM me if you're intersted.

Hopeful Reefer · #24 10/03/2007, 10:02 AM

Has anyone checked the make-up of the sand? Is it just Calcium Carbonite like the Carribean stuff was...or does it have other impurities in it like heavy metals and such...

YHPM brward5...

Hopeful Reefer · #25 10/03/2007, 06:51 PM

As long as there are no other heavy metals or other contaminents in the sand I guess this would be the alternate route to go for now...

Anyone else considering a few bags? Maybe we could get Marvin or Joe to order a palette of the stuff if there isn't enough interest for a group buy (or one of the other local stores)...$784 for one of those guys wouldn't be a bad deal I guess...

Anybody talking to Marvin or Joe tonight or tomorrow to see if they would consider buying a palette?